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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you left the corporate world to go into teaching what was the biggest shock?

452 replies

coodawoodashooda · 04/04/2022 20:47

Just wondering. Usually we have threads from fed up teachers. Im a teacher, not looking for a fight. Just interested.

OP posts:
SamphiretheStickerist · 05/04/2022 11:11

You have an annual salary split across 12 months - you’re paid the same every month. Why misrepresent the facts? It just sounds stupid.

It's not that hard to understand, is it? You even explained it...

Teacher's work for 190/195 days a year, most people work for 230 days a year. The pay to for that additional month of working days is, as you pointed out, taken from the days worked and spread out, giving an even 12 monthly payments. But that 35-40 days remain unpaid. So, as others have said repeatedly, of the 13 weeks teachers seemingly get for holiday, most of it is unpaid. And yet, as again many teachers explain, we do actually work some of those unpaid weeks.

Now, what else do you want explaining? I could take a stab at the ineffability of eternity!

Fairislefandango · 05/04/2022 11:12

PlainJaneEyremy DM trained as a teacher in 70s and finishing at 3.30, no work in weekends or holidays (or very little) and school holidays appealed to her as a parent.

The workload and demands of being a teacher are hugely different from what they were like 20 years ago, never mind 50.

I've read a lot of these kinds of threads before. Most people with experience of both will find some benefits of corporate jobs over teaching, and vice versa. But so much of it is dependent on which subject, which school which country/part of the uk, which kind of corporate job, what kind of person they are, not to mention which decade it was or which government they were under, that comparison is not very informative.

Plus, using anecdotal comparisons from job changers does not negate the experience of career teachers. Do you dismiss the concerns and experiences of, for example, nurses just because they've always been nurses? Besides, a lot of the complaints from teachers are about how the shittiness of the current education system has an adverse effect on children because of its insistence on making teachers spend their time on pointless hoop-jumping for the sake of making spurious data look good.

Shinyandnew1 · 05/04/2022 11:12

@Handsnotwands

My current teaching salary is around £28k, I’ll bet the other high pressure professionals are paid significantly more than me.

they're really not. this would be a management level salary in many industries.

I earn £32k, i have degrees, a masters, 20 years experience, a whole lot of pressure and responsibility, long hours, multiple competing deadlines. a big proper job, its quite a usual salary.

That is not my experience-of all of my friends of a similar age who didn’t go into teaching are easily on £50k+ and then much more for those with management responsibilities.
Fairislefandango · 05/04/2022 11:16

You have an annual salary split across 12 months - you’re paid the same every month. Why misrepresent the facts? It just sounds stupid.

Being paid for the hours you actually work, but having that pay divided into 12 payments evenly distributed across the year, is not the same as being paid for your time off.

Or to put it more simply, being paid in the holidays is not the same as being paid for the holidays. If you worked Mon-Fri, and your pay somehow went into your bank account on a Saturday, would you think you were getting paid for your Saturday lounging at home? No, did think so.

TheHoleNineYards · 05/04/2022 11:21

Never ever seen this boring fucking claim about any other job.

Well, no, because the other jobs are outside of education, therefore the people doing them are in a different environment to a school Hmm

Personally, I don’t think it makes a huge amount of difference. I work with great teachers who trained straight away and great teachers who retrained after a different career. They both bring different strengths to the role.

Beachhuts90 · 05/04/2022 11:22

I was surprised at how many swear words 5 year olds knew!

littlemisslozza · 05/04/2022 11:23

I taught in state comprehensives for 18 years and was utterly exhausted by the end of it, not only from the poor behaviour and non-existent work ethic of a significant number of pupils, but also by the demands of an increasingly out of touch SLT. The last school was supposedly outstanding but hasn't been inspected for ten years. There is no way it still is and the number of very experienced teachers leaving is surely a red flag.

I took a couple of years out of teaching and worked in our family business instead. My DH works crazy hours but is ultimately his own boss, which is why he continues to do so. Different pressures. In teaching I am (mostly) on holidays when my DC are and that is a big help. I work in the evenings during the holidays, but at least I can work around the DC.

I now work in an independent school and what a difference! I can actually do my job an expectations are high, resources are plentiful, the children are polite and keen and I am thoroughly enjoying teaching again. SLT are better too. Having said that, I work six days a week as it's a boarding school, have an evening duty and am obliged to be involved in sport and extra-curricular activities too. This job is extremely full on in term time but the difference is that it's enjoyable now, classes are smaller so marking is more manageable and it's just a positive environment all round.

I wouldn't still be teaching if it was in our local state system and it is shocking how poorly funded some schools are. Inequalities within the state system are large too. I've been a governor too so I've seen the budget limitations first hand.

SapatSea · 05/04/2022 11:23

When teachers go on strike or you have to have a day off for a family emergency your pay is docked at the 190 day rate.

yellowsuninthesky · 05/04/2022 11:26

I'd never had a work assessment/appraisal from someone who not only had no clue about my specialism but cheerfully admitted it to me before giving feedback. Feedback that would dictate whether I moved payscales or not

When I was a school governor i used to do the headteacher's performance review. Ridiculous, when I think about it now. I was professionally qualified as a lawyer but what qualifications did I have to tell a head whether she was doing a good job?

Onionpatch · 05/04/2022 11:31

Slightly different for me - i worked in admin in a corporate environment and now work in admin in a school so its more directly comparable.

I think teachers are under more scrutiny than the other areas i worked in (law and marketing).

I think outside interference is higher too. In my legal/marketing areas we bever had new government ministers changing everything with little to no evidene base. Which is very frustrating for practicioners.

I think there is less general options for progression. In teaching in a primary you are a class teacher or the head basically. They have things like subject lead or pastoral but they dont tend to get paid for doing . Even a deputy might be given just an afternoon a week to deputy at.

Id also say the head has more individual liability for so many things than i saw heads of law firms or ceos at a similar pay. In that my head earns about 55k which isnt a lot for all that liability.

GrannyBloomers · 05/04/2022 11:31

@Fairislefandango

You have an annual salary split across 12 months - you’re paid the same every month. Why misrepresent the facts? It just sounds stupid.

Being paid for the hours you actually work, but having that pay divided into 12 payments evenly distributed across the year, is not the same as being paid for your time off.

Or to put it more simply, being paid in the holidays is not the same as being paid for the holidays. If you worked Mon-Fri, and your pay somehow went into your bank account on a Saturday, would you think you were getting paid for your Saturday lounging at home? No, did think so.

How do the calculations come out on an approximate weekly rate?

Using 30k for example. Let's assume our office worker and teacher work similar hours overall - they both do a lot of overtime which is not paid.

Office worker has 5 weeks paid holiday and teacher officially has 13.

In effect office worker earns £638 per week for 47 weeks of the year and teacher earns £769 per week for 39 weeks a year.
When it comes to payroll both are taxed upon £2,500 per calendar month gross income.
This is a very crude calculation which does not take into account pensions (used to be much more generous for teachers as they had final salary, private sector tends to be minimum). It also does not take into account amount of overtime worked - this can vary hugely.

Eyedropeyeflop · 05/04/2022 11:35

Teaching is the best job and the worst job in the world. No middle ground.

Some people need the stimulation of teaching they would be bored in offices even if it did mean they could take a piss whenever they wanted.

Fairislefandango · 05/04/2022 11:38

In effect office worker earns £638 per week for 47 weeks of the year and teacher earns £769 per week for 39 weeks a year.

I'm not talking about comparative rates if pay or arguing about whether an office worker gets paid more or less than a teacher, or who gets taxed how much etc. I'm merely pointing out the inaccuracy of the commonly-held and oft-spouted idea that teachers are paid for their holidays.

coodawoodashooda · 05/04/2022 11:39

I don't have a good experience of lawyers. I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry.

OP posts:
Antarcticant · 05/04/2022 11:43

Teachers are not the only profession unfairly bashed.

Back in 2020, after lockdown one, the BBC did a montage thanking all the different key-workers who had kept going on the frontline.

There was one group who didn't get a mention.

Clue - it wasn't teachers - they got their clap along with the NHS and all the rest.

okayigetit · 05/04/2022 11:54

@donquixotedelamancha

I think it’s interesting how I can always tell the teachers who have always been in teaching - jumping from school - uni - NQT - teaching. As someone else said up thread they just fuss more about things, I’m always shocked by how much they seem to think nothing else can be similar to teaching.

I've worked in banking, HR, run a hostel, been a cook and a cleaner; I think nothing is like Teaching. I have a friend who used to do underwater bomb disposal in the navy. He'd been through war but didn't make it through the pressure of teaching.

In many schools teaching is sadly toxic. Even in the good ones it's a very hard and unusual job.

Christ, now teaching is harder than going to war
XelaM · 05/04/2022 12:01

My experience is that for the most part people exaggerate about how busy they are and tge overflow if work and working late comes from being inefficient during billable hours. This applies both to lawyers (cannot speaking for the whole corporate world but have worked in City law firms for nearly 15 years) and to teachers. Working smarter rather than harder gets you far in any profession.

I left to teach at a university because I hated the constant pressure of billing and trying to get the next big client in, not the workload itself.

XelaM · 05/04/2022 12:01

the overflow of work*

XelaM · 05/04/2022 12:02

cannot speak*

Fairislefandango · 05/04/2022 12:02

Umm yes, the war comparison seems a bit extreme... Mind you, at one of the secondary schools (normal school in a nice area, rated goodby Ofsted) where I work, two (desperately needed) supply teachers just upped and walked out half-way through the day a couple of weeks ago due to the kids' behaviour. One of them apparently said 'I've worked in prisons, but I'm not tolerating that - I won't be coming back here again' Shock It really is particularly shit at the moment.

Eelicks · 05/04/2022 12:03

My OH works in a non-mainstream setting. Leaves at 3.30 never does any work evenings/weekends/holidays (although he gets into work early each day to do planning and marking). Mainstream I gather is very different in terms of paperwork and workload, he did that before we met but said he cried on the way to work each day and very nearly had a breakdown so quit that very quickly.

I work longer hours (prof services) but I am paid more than twice as much, and the hours I work directly relate to my pay review and bonus. We both same age and level of education. My OH therefore picks up most childcare duties.

He says its very taboo to talk about pay at his work, and it's like they should feel lucky /grateful to be paid at all which to me is ridiculous. Altho they are supposed to go up a pay scale each year management make this so difficult you have to realy push for it to be done (only just received OHs pay increase this month from last September!!) . At my work it's a given and even respected to be asking for pay rises and pushing for a bonus (altho as I say its easier to measure given it directly relates to hours worked / money made for the business).

Also even in his setting he says there's a lot of pressure to work extra unpaid hours, mainly weirdly from certain other teachers who seem to think because they view teaching as a lifestyle everyone else should as well! Only talking about his experiences of course but there's always teachers emailing at 8/9pm at night , talking about all the extra stuff they're doing when its not like they're getting paid more for doing it. He ignores any emails after 3.30 and as I say he doesn't have time to do work after school due to childcare.

hes not interested in working towards senior roles as the increase in responsibility is just not worth it for the pay increase (very much his decision not mine as hes much less career orientated). if he did start having to work more for free it just wouldn't be worth it for the money.

He gets good results and attendance from the kids (relatively given the setting) and he's one of the only teachers in the place that hasn't been off with stress/ extended periods of sickness. He actually really enjoys his job and feels the pay is fair for his hours. It really baffles me why all schools don't encourage a better work life balance on this basis Confused! He's well thought of by management too so not like hes 'slacking', they offered him Subject lead (no mention of more money of course!). He declined.

In summary seems to me teaching is only worth it if you can find somewhere where you can actually work the advertised hours (probably vanishingly rare I know) as otherwise its just not paid enough, and if youre an ambitious graduate you'd be better off finding a job with longer hours /more pay if you were going to work those hours anyway.

LoudParrot · 05/04/2022 12:04

@floofycroissant I don't have a PhD, but I do have a post-graduate qualification in my subject.

Eyedropeyeflop · 05/04/2022 12:06

@okayigetit

Definitely harder than bomb disposal.

I’m joking by the way. I mean it is hard but for the love of god, let’s not start bomb disposal comparisons.

MichaelAndEagle · 05/04/2022 12:07

@Debroglie

The authoritarian management. No one dares question the headteacher even if he’s clearly talking shite. Even department heads aren’t to be challenged. It’s really weird to have a load of really dedicated hardworking intelligent professionals that you don’t want to listen to.
I know this point was made way back on page 1. But I must agree with this. My very close friend is a teacher (I am not) and has had a horrid time recently due to a number of work things. The most shocking thing to me about her experience of teaching is this. It is not collaborative or supportive, and she is not trusted as an experienced professional to do her job in the way she knows how and believes to be best. May be variations between schools of course, I'm sure management or leadership styles can vary. In the end she has pushed back against her senior managers for the sake of her mental health and quality of teaching or the children's experience has not diminished at all. But its not the culture at all to say no. I'm paid a similar amount to her (a bit less actually) but am given free rein to deliver a range of objectives, monitored at a 1:1. Much more freedom and respect for my skills, knowledge and experience.
Handsnotwands · 05/04/2022 12:10

@WhenSheWasBad

That sucks handsnotwands
No really, it’s quite a usual salary outside London. I know a few people who earn megabucks. The vast majority earn similar salaries and are fine with that. It’s normal (except on mumsnet where everyone earns £100k but bizarrely have no concept of how the modern workplace operates)