If you left the corporate world to go into teaching what was the biggest shock?

[coodawoodashooda]

Just wondering. Usually we have threads from fed up teachers. Im a teacher, not looking for a fight. Just interested.

@LethargeMarg Jesus, I just got flashbacks when reading your post! Very well put

Threads like these just reinforce the idea that teaching is not in any way a rewarding career.
Does anyone else worry about where the next generation of teachers will come from? What’s the motivation aged 18 to choose to do a teaching degree?
Where’s the incentives to switch to teaching as a career change

Perhaps, rather than policing thoughts on mumsnet, you could campaign for better conditions, more staff and more pay? It might be both rather more effective, and less manipulative of others experiences. At the moment all public sector professions are being overworked and underpaid in the service of the ideology of the super-rich.

But don’t worry, in most party’s of the country people -women -still flock to teaching and nursing because there is still little real choice.

What shocked me was the unprofessionalism, the preference for social cliques over skills even among the trainers as if the staff were still in school, and poor literacy and numeracy among teachers.

@sst1234

It genuinely feels like teaching is the only public sector profession left everyone is putting in the work. Only if every public sector area was as efficient, public funds could achieve so much more. The crap teachers put up with from lazy, no hoper, waster parents and their carbon copy children is enough to put most people off.

I don't understand what you're meaning here? That every public sector job should be working in the conditions posters are saying are so stressful? Or is it a subtle dig at other public sector workers ? 🙄

@HeliosPurple

I love being a teacher but I really wish people knew this - teaching is the only job where you have to work in your own time outside of work in order to be able to do the actual work (the teaching) that you are paid to do. Additional work generated by the ‘actual work’ (assessments, action planning for subject leadership, reports etc) also has to be done in your own time. It’s a great job but in the twenty years since I qualified, I do think it’s lost it’s way.

It’s not the only job. Have you done all other jobs?

@SonicBroom speaks sense, the variance within each group of people is too large to make a broad brush comparison.

One difference between teaching and corporate is how teachers get their PPA and free time scheduled in. A curriculum lead in my last school could expect 13 free hours over a 2 week period.
There may be corporate jobs out there that have similar but it wasn't the case when I was in industry (IT in defence company).

@HeliosPurple

I love being a teacher but I really wish people knew this - teaching is the only job where you have to work in your own time outside of work in order to be able to do the actual work (the teaching) that you are paid to do. Additional work generated by the ‘actual work’ (assessments, action planning for subject leadership, reports etc) also has to be done in your own time. It’s a great job but in the twenty years since I qualified, I do think it’s lost it’s way.

No, not the 'only job'. Many corporate jobs are the same. Take mine for instance: I have just worked through the night - again, a common occurrence - to get reports and strategic work done because as soon as 8.30am comes round, my 'job' is to be in meetings, presenting, in calls and available for clients and team until gone 6pm, every day. The only time I get to prepare for those non stop, back to back meetings, is when everyone else is away from their desks and usually asleep!

So, no, whilst I acknowledge and see the work teachers do out of hours, it isn't the ONLY job where that is required.

I always wanted to be a teacher, however when I really looked into it I could either get:

Corporate/public sector world - a £40k year starting salary, 40 hour week, 7 weeks holiday before finishing my degree for my niche role

Teaching - a £25k a year starting salary for god knows how many hours after I've finished my degree and pcge which I'd have to go into debt to survive on.

Its pretty clear which is the more sensible choice, the whole teaching career needs serious rework jn terms of pay and conditions. Teachers just don't earn enough for what they do.

The micro management, the lack of autonomy and trust of grown qualified adults decision making ability.

teaching is the only job where you have to work in your own time outside of work in order to be able to do the actual work (the teaching) that you are paid to do

Bollocks.

I can't see the point staying up all night to write a report for some meaningless corporate presentation that won't ultimately achieve anything but make more cash for company X. But I can see a huge meaningful reason to do the same for students when you're a teacher. It sucks to have to work outside hours like that in either case, but at least the teaching example isn't soul destroyingly pointless.

Also so much drama over nothing. I have colleagues that wouldn't make it to breakfast in a corporate environment
This, definitely.

@RoyKent

Every year I'm shocked how much effort I put in to Yr11 compared to how little effort they put in.

Oh yes!!!

Don’t get me wrong I get a lot of time off, but having worked in other jobs I find that the time off is always spent thinking about, doing something for work or recovering

This is by no means unique to teaching.

[quote NiceTwin]@SonicBroom speaks sense, the variance within each group of people is too large to make a broad brush comparison.

One difference between teaching and corporate is how teachers get their PPA and free time scheduled in. A curriculum lead in my last school could expect 13 free hours over a 2 week period.
There may be corporate jobs out there that have similar but it wasn't the case when I was in industry (IT in defence company).[/quote]
You know they're not 'free hours' it's preparation and planning time . Or in other words with one hand cramming a sandwich in and one chance to neck a cup of tea while with the other hand going through an epic pile of marking, as you very rarely get a chance at lunchtime or break as you're setting up for your next lesson or planning with the very likely chance you end up covering someone else's class at the last minute anyway.
If you're in the corporate world and have to do presentations you know how long these can take to prepare - it's that x 5 a day with a much harder to please audience so having a few hours a week within your paid time to prepare us pretty vital and doesn't take away from all the evenings and weekends working
As I said up thread I'm an ex teacher I'm now on a much lower paid job in the nhs, there's no way I'd go back because of how hard and stressful it is .

I have moved the other way - from corporate world after 30 years in teaching. The differences in my new life.

A lovely, clean toilet which always has soap and that I can go to at anytime during the day.
Free tea, coffee, juice, water and fruit. And I can have a drink at any time of the day.
Not being told to f off, or having nasty comments made about my clothes, hairstyle or general appearance.
Starting and leaving work at the same time every day - never taking any work home with me, and most certainly not lying on bed unable to sleep worrying about work.
New ICT equipment that is reliable.
Driving into work without butterflies in my stomach worrying about what fresh hell this day will bring.
Not having to assume that people around me might decide to kick off because of a million and one triggers in the life outside work, that I know nothing about but will be blamed for not knowing about if I dare to ask them politely to sit down and stop swearing at me.
Not being blamed for hitting made up, unachievable targets.
Having a supply of all of the stationery and equipment I need, and not being expected to pay for it myself.

The drama, the whinging about pensions (!!!), the piss poor management and leadership. The behaviour in the staff room talking about the kids and their families. Most of them wouldn’t survive a day in a big corporate.

However on the flip side, some amazingly skilled teachers who I learned so much from and made a huge difference to so many kids.

I do agree that teaching isn't the 'only' job fhat requires work outside of normal hours (and also, at secondary level at least, the amount of extra hours you have depends massively on what subject you teach. This is a controversial topic amongst the profession but I know for a fact that lots of teachers have far lower marking and planning loads than I and my department colleagues had in English). However, I'd be interested in your ballpark salary, @Chilver... I have a feeling it will be significantly higher with your level of responsibility and workload than most of the overworked teachers I know.

Not a teacher but by OH has just retrained as one after a corporate career and what’s shocked me most is the really poor management he’s had.

What would kill me is the relentlessness of it. No slightly easier days. No slacking off. Ever. Honestly I take my hat off to every one of you for that alone.

@LethargeMarg I know what they are meant for, yes.
Does that mean every teacher uses them for their intended purpose? Absolutely not.
I am sure there are many that do but there are many who hit the staffroom or nip out if they have back to back free periods.

I am not being critical, I am just pointing out that I know of no other job that gets scheduled hourly free time every week.
I am happy to be enlightened that there are.

@Libertaire

I’m not a teacher, but I would imagine that getting 13 weeks off a year (or 16 in fee-paying schools) instead of 5 in the private sector would be a pretty major difference.

It sounds good doesn't it? It's a hell of a lot easier working in an office with 5 weeks off a year.

I can't see the point staying up all night to write a report for some meaningless corporate presentation that won't ultimately achieve anything but make more cash for company X. But I can see a huge meaningful reason to do the same for students when you're a teacher. It sucks to have to work outside hours like that in either case, but at least the teaching example isn't soul destroyingly pointless.

This just shows an utter lack of understanding of how the world works and total disregard for the work anyone else does.

If people didn’t do these “pointless” presentations, who do you think would be building the houses you live in, stocking the supermarkets you shop in, developing the technology you use, supplying the energy you depend on, improving the safety of the cars you drive, developing treatments and medicines that help you to live and through the conditions you have, managing a transport network that helps you to get to where you need to be, supporting an tourist industry that means you can just go online and Google anywhere in the world you want to go, helping to ensure we have a lawful society in every area of life where the way people and companies treat each other is regulated and reflects the world we want to live in, provides a safe place for you to save and grow your money or a loan or mortgage when you want something you can’t afford?

And what do you think teachers are really there to do? Life goals and ambitions aren’t achieved by knowing what a fronted adverbial is. I’d like to think that our kids teachers are giving kids the tools, skills and confidence to aspire to anything they want to be, not ignorantly writing off improving some of the worlds most critical goods services just because you clearly know nothing about it.

teaching is the only job where you have to work in your own time outside of work in order to be able to do the actual work (the teaching) that you are paid to do

This is the sort of thing that does teachers no favours and demonstrates the kind of education bubble that many inhabit (I used to be one of those people)
But now I have friends in the corporate world, working all- nighters to get/ meet/ keep that contract that will keep them in a job. And they're not necessarily on mega money either.

I was going on holiday with one of these friends, and I ended up heading for the airport with no idea whether he was going to be able to join me, because in his corporate world 'something had come up' that he had no option but to put before his trip.

I learned to appreciate the security and structure around my job, if nothing else.

So many professional jobs require work lots of outside working hours.

My husbands contracted hours are 9-5 but his working hours and those of his colleagues are generally 8am-9/10pm. Often working during holidays. Much better paid than teaching though, but much less holiday.

I am glad I don’t do either of these things though. Huge respect for teachers.

Not teacher but moved from corporate to work in schools . The thing which has as always surprised me is how little many teachers know about the working world outside teaching, there is a sort of bunker mentality which breeds a feeling that they are constantly hard done by. I suppose this is unsurprising when you think that many have gone from school to university and back to school but it’s very striking and it means that they make a lot of broad assumptions , as a previous poster did, about how no one outside teaching ever has to do this or that which are simply not true . For the record in my whole career I have never had a graduate level job which did not involve habitually working outside my contracted hours.

The other thing is that they are largely ignorant of how amazing their pension scheme is in comparison to just about anyone except the health service. ( I deal with TPS ) Yes the new career average scheme has lower benefits and it’s not cheap ( especially not for the employer, how many employers put 23.6% into their employees pension) but it is still pound for pound a lot better than anyone would get in the private sector and the widows pension, dependents pensions and death in service benefits are such a security net that most people in private sector jobs couldn’t even dream of. Most teachers seem completely oblivious to any of this.

Actual teaching is a fantastic job. I now teach in a fairly small independent school, and I think my job is probably quite close to what people imagine. I do spend a lot of time preparing good lessons, but that's because I know that the kids will then be engaged and make good progress. I spend a huge amount of time marking, but I know the kids will read the comments, and respect my input. And the lessons themselves are usually quite good fun. Sometimes we go off on a bit of tangent, and we have a bit of a laugh, but we can back on track quickly, and every hour feels genuinely productive.

This is miles away from my last job in a (well respected, over subscribed) comprehensive. Controlling crowds of rude, aggressive kids whilst feeling desperately guilty for the quiet ones who did want to learn but never got the chance. Feeling sick going to bed, because I knew I'd have to do it all again tomorrow. Actually hoping I might crash my car on the way to work so I wouldn't have to deal with year 11 period 1. "Free" periods taken up with cover for colleagues who hadn't been able to face coming in.

It's not really the kids that are the problem. 30-32 (or even 34) is completely normalised as an acceptable class size, but it's too big. 24 is a completely different thing. There are physically not enough hours in the day to do a good job of full time teaching timetable. Teachers are running on caffeine and adrenaline, they spend all their time logging behavioural incidents, and then marking books for constant "work scrutiny", so they have no time to prepare good lessons. Unsurprisingly this means that they're always on the back foot, behaviour gets worse, and the teacher has no head space, or patience, or energy to deal with it.

OFSTED has such lofty expectations of schools, which are so far removed from the reality of the conditions in which teachers are working. Good lessons and good classroom management should always come first, and it should be understood that at some points most teachers will have to let everything else slide just to focus of those two key things.

(sorry for that rant- I think I'm still processing the trauma of just 3 years in what really was not a particularly challenging school!)