If you left the corporate world to go into teaching what was the biggest shock?

[coodawoodashooda]

Just wondering. Usually we have threads from fed up teachers. Im a teacher, not looking for a fight. Just interested.

But, with the exception of a small minority, it's a great deal more than 195 days' work.

@NiceTwin

Teacher's salaries are not pro-rated unless they are part time posts. I have never seen an advert stating the salary is pro-rated.

Surely, if they are getting paid £25k+ for 195 days work, they are rather handsomely paid.

No teacher ever really said otherwise, did they?

The debates always focus on 2 issues

• people saying teachers get very long holidays
• teachers pointing out that they work many more hours than those credited and that those holidays aren't all paid.

That's it! It is s stressful job. It isn't the only stressful job, etc etc etc.

@donquixotedelamancha

Christ, now teaching is harder than going to war

I doubt that. Merely that my friend found it harder than being in the Navy, including going to war. People cope with different pressures differently.

Umm yes, the war comparison seems a bit extreme...

How can a description of someone's experience be extreme? Most of your time in the Navy is quite dull and routine, it's just a different type of pressure. I survived teaching but wouldn't have had a cat in hell's chanced doign his job.

You said that in your experience nothing is like teaching, and then went on to talk about your friend who had been at war but couldn't hack teaching... the implication there is that teaching is harder than war, no?

Its amazing how a thread aimed at those who have come into the profession turns into teacher bashing. Again.

Let's just stick to the OP.

@echt well no, because those people have not been in the same environment from 4 years old…

@OutlookStalking

Its amazing how a thread aimed at those who have come into the profession turns into teacher bashing. Again.

Let's just stick to the OP.

The first comment that was bashing anything was 'how lazy private sector workers are and how little they do' ... it was comment number 7

@sweepeep

teaching is the only job where you have to work in your own time outside of work in order to be able to do the actual work (the teaching) that you are paid to do

Eh....no it's not!

I get what is meant here. The quoted bit doesn't relate to doing overtime, it relates to having to create the fundamental resources, tools, teaching plan, literally everything required to actually them go in to deliver it at school - but in one's own time. If that wasn't all done outside school hours, the teacher wouldn't physically have nothing to teach.

How can teacher's claim not to be paid for holidays when their pay is not pro-rated?
I genuinely don't understand if anybody could explain.

Dear lord. How hard can it be? If you got a job and were told 'You will work Monday to Friday 9-5 and will be paid, say, £600 a week', would you say that you were being paid for your weekends off? Of course not. You are being paid for working the hours you work. Teachers are paid their stated salary, which is the pay they get for the hours they work.

I think as a teacher I've noticed that we are getting a lot more students teachers who are older and changing careers. Without putting too fine a point on it, they're generally pretty shit. Can't cope with the workload, can't keep up and plan in advance, complaining that they don't stop in an 8h day, struggling to manage the intensity of the working day and the fact that you have responsibilities out of your core teaching, really struggling with the massive mental loaf, all of them admitting they thought it would be easier than their old job and that they never imagined it would be this hard, lots of tears. I love my job and get that it is intense but very shocked by their reactions to it. Very much questioning the prevailing narrative that I have an easy life compared to private sector workers.

@Fairislefandango

*How can teacher's claim not to be paid for holidays when their pay is not pro-rated? I genuinely don't understand if anybody could explain.*

Dear lord. How hard can it be? If you got a job and were told 'You will work Monday to Friday 9-5 and will be paid, say, £600 a week', would you say that you were being paid for your weekends off? Of course not. You are being paid for working the hours you work. Teachers are paid their stated salary, which is the pay they get for the hours they work.

That comparison doesn't really hold up though? No one would claim teachers are paid for weekends.

By that logic, I'm not paid for holidays either in my corporate job.

@Fritilleries a lesson is 1 hour long. Marking one set of books takes more than 1 hour, even if you do a very basic job of it (ie mark exactly one straightforward exercise, give one positive comment and one area for improvement, and don't look at classwork etc). Which would leave negative time for actually teaching anything.

I do 8hrs marking most weeks (more if there are assessments) and I'm fairly sure that my colleagues in English and History do far more than that.

@SamphiretheStickerist incredibly, there is more than one person on this thread that have suggested teacher's pay is pro rated.

That comparison doesn't really hold up though? No one would claim teachers are paid for weekends.

By that logic, I'm not paid for holidays either in my corporate job.

I'm with you, QuirkyTurtle, I don't understand this 'teachers aren't paid for holidays' business.

In the private sector, if a job is advertised at £35k pa, that's the gross amount you get, split over 12 months, assuming you work 9-5(ish) Mon-Fri. I assume the same is correct for teachers?

Or are teaching jobs normally advertised at a weekly wage rather than a yearly salary? Is this where the confusion comes from?

I'm probably being dense. Fortunately I am not a maths teacher or any other kind of teacher.

I did the opposite. Corporate world a billion times easier, less stressful, more rewarding etc etc. Teaching is hell. Shame, because it should be a lovely job. But underfunding and turning it into a statistics game has ruined it.

It is hard to compare. Eg doctors get overtime but lawyers don't so even if you work every weekend for 2 months (quite common in the City) and work over night all nigh ie 24 hours no sleep etc you do not get a penny of extra pay. So in a sense you could say lawyers and teachers are similar but doctors different because they get paid for their extra hours.

[quote NiceTwin]@SamphiretheStickerist incredibly, there is more than one person on this thread that have suggested teacher's pay is pro rated.[/quote]
I'm guessing that's posters trying the find a way if explaining to those determined not to understand the fact that teacher's pay is not for the same contracted days/hours as any other full time employee.

It seems, even when the relevant numbers are included, some still prefer to express their credulity.

By that logic, I'm not paid for holidays either in my corporate job.

Well no, I'd assume you weren't. So why is it that people assume that teachers are?

Has anyone ever done annualised hour contracts or condensed hours contracts.
Not that a teaching contract is either - they have an odd directed hours over 195 days thing which changes for senior leaders anyway.
Its just that there are contracts that arent standard in other areas too.

Or are teaching jobs normally advertised at a weekly wage rather than a yearly salary? Is this where the confusion comes from?

As I explained upthread, teachers are contracted for 30-35 fewer working days per year. Same contractual holidays, as per employment law. That leaves them with those days unpaid, not included in either work days or holidays.

Does that help?

I mean... did you think that teachers were suggesting that they don't get paid for their holidays but everyone else does?! The only reason teachers bang on about not being paid for their holidays is that people are constantly insisting that they do!

@Fairislefandango

By that logic, I'm not paid for holidays either in my corporate job.

Well no, I'd assume you weren't. So why is it that people assume that teachers are?

Clearly it's just a difference in understanding between corporate and educational world then?

My holidays are referred to as paid holidays. I get paid the same amount during a month where I take two weeks of PTO compared to a month where I work every day.

I consider my holidays paid, and I consider teacher's holidays paid.

That being said, I'm not trying to argue that teacher deserve to be underpaid because they have more holidays. I'm not a teacher but I have two close friends who are, and I wouldn't trade with them for anything.

If it's hard to understand the logistics of teachers' salaries, it's maybe easier to think of it that teachers are paid considerably less than other professions requiring a similar level of education and training because they have a longer amount of holidays

I'm with you, QuirkyTurtle, I don't understand this 'teachers aren't paid for holidays' business. In the private sector, if a job is advertised at £35k pa, that's the gross amount you get, split over 12 months, assuming you work 9-5(ish) Mon-Fri. I assume the same is correct for teachers?

Yes. What you're misunderstanding is that teachers aren't saying "We don't get paid for our holidays, unlike everyone else". They are saying "We also don't get paid for our holidays, just like other people don't get paid for their holidays. So why the hell do people keep saying that we do?!"

I work in an intense corporate job and would love a career as a teacher. I have enormous respect for them. Unfortunately I can’t accept the pay cut as it would be a life changing reduction for me and I probably wouldn’t be able to afford my (hefty) mortgage on a teacher’s salary. It’s wrong that teachers are paid so little for the important work that they do.

I consider my holidays paid, and I consider teacher's holidays paid.

But if our pay is calculated based on the number of contracted working hours we do per year, in what sense are we being paid for our holidays?