Stop implying it's not so bad now because you grew up with no central heating and scraped ice off the windows.

[flashbac]

FFS

I also had no central heating in the house as a kid. There was a hole under the bathtub that cats would use to come in while you were freezing arse off on the loo. It was bloody grim. I don't wish it on anybody. People shouldn't have to be uncomfortable in their own bleeding homes for goodness sakes. It shouldn't be happening in this day and age. Stop defending it.

@Pissyduck

YANBU

why are people happy with the bar being set so low? We live in one of the richest countries in the world and yet wealth is distributed in such a way that people are being forced to live in the cold without enough money for food.

The social contract between citizen and government has been ripped up and spat upon by this government.

Agreed- 100%

Genuine question - is value of main residence included in who is a millionaire?

Because if so, there will be lots of people who are 'asset rich' because of houseprice inflation, but not a millionaire in an ordinary sense of being wealthy day to day.

@BeardyButton

Agree…. It’s hideous. All the ‘back in my day’ people are likely sitting pretty with retirement funds and property that has increased in value. Meanwhile the nxt generation can’t afford to get on the property ladder, no ability to fund retirements and now can’t heat the houses they don’t own.

“I deserve all this wealth as I worked so hard for it “ is nonsense. So is the “millennials can’t afford property as they spend too much on lattes”.

Actually no. Like others in this thread and some of the other similar ones, some of us were under the impression that when someone asked "what can we do?" they actually wanted and answer. So we drew on our experiences as a kid, memories of how grandparents managed large families on little money in draughty houses. Practical ideas on how to cope with the cold and little money for heating.

But we were wrong. Because, now seemingly outnumbering posters who do want to discuss practical issues, many people just want to rant at the government, 'boomers', anyone, everyone, next door's cat included.

If being older, having already worked full time for 40 years with another 10 to go before my state pension kicks in, living within my means which have increased since I was 30 years old, is a crime then statistically there is every chance that you too, most posters here, will be equally criminal in the eyes of your own kids and grandkids in a few years time. Just as every generation is... Your ageist ire is nothing new.

Nor is ignoring the knowledge of older generations. After all, we are too smug, wealthy, stupid, divorced from reality, lucky, house grabbing, resource guzzlingly dumb to be taken seriously - unless you want a figure of hate MNHQ will usually let stand.

Next winter, when hell freezes over and the reality hits many people who have never really known real 'want' before I'll still be here. Sanctimoniously offering sincere advice on how to take the edge off, how to manage even a tiny bit better. And many posters will probably continue to choose to rant rather than to take any of it on board.

Which would be alright for them but has, so far across many threads, prevented information being exchanged between posters who are actually interested in practical steps that can be taken.

So we drew on our experiences as a kid, memories of how grandparents managed large families on little money in draughty houses. Practical ideas on how to cope with the cold and little money for heatin

But we were wrong. Because, now seemingly outnumbering posters who do want to discuss practical issues, many people just want to rant at the government, 'boomers', anyone, everyone, next door's cat include

Or maybe we could look at the wealth and assets that have built up with a lot of older people (not all) and wonder if there could be a fairer way of taxing them in today's society?

I am sure that some people would appreciate your advice on coping with the cold - you could start a thread on it in chat.

Meanwhile, the Government (and past Governments) have been responsible for setting energy policy in the past and have fucked up.

Well said @SamphiretheStickerist. A lot of people seem to enjoying moaning, but are averse to being offered advice. They want someone to wave a magic wand and everything to be wonderful, and in the meantime they will blame the previous generations for not waving that wand in their direction.

As for us "sitting pretty with retirement funds and property that has increased in value" - yeah right, of course we are.

As for us "sitting pretty with retirement funds and property that has increased in value" - yeah right, of course we are

A lot of older people are sitting nicely with retirement funds and property that has increased in value.

And some haven't.

But that's for another thread.

There are many people who are comfortably well off, who can afford these price rises and who won't struggle. A lot of people are doing ok.

How aware are people of the issues out there? Or are they hidden from it, buffered from it and they have no understanding as they just don't see it.

And when it comes to elections, they vote for parties that act in their interest. The 'I'm all right, Jack' attitude.

I agree, OP.
I had a rough childhood and all I want is for my son to have a better one, which he does. Our circumstances aren’t the best, but he’s happy and fed and warm. The “back in my day” people tend to be out of touch and try and give “advice” that’s no longer relevant or doesn’t take peoples particular circumstances into account.

when one of them came out with ' well, if they got rid of their £40 a month iPhones and TV packages, they'd be able to afford it wouldn't they

I was part of a similar conversation this week. I was the one saying it. The context was that the person talking to me said he couldn't afford woollen blankets, more socks, hats, scarves, down jackets, thinsulate layers, onesies, slow cooker, stock pot, or anything else we were discussing.

I pointed out that if he got a new, cheaper phone contract and looked at how much he was spending on Sky he probably could. For example a single month without Sky would buy him a slow cooker and a fair few hats, gloves, scarves. If he went to charity shops he would find all sorts of blankets etc. If he did without even half of the Sky and phone packages he had he could stock up over summer, buying winter stuff in the coming sales.

His response was to tell me I had no idea and then he turned his back on me, ignored me for the next couple of hours.

I was at a meeting where we were discussing how we could help our clients prepare for next winter. We are a local food bank and have already started to plan extending our links to provide more of a rather long list of goods and services.

But that's for another thread

If it's for another thread why is it the first response to my post, and any other from any poster who says that they are older?

SamphiretheStickerist but there is only so much people can do to try and keep warm and most people will by and large know what to do, it ain't rocket science. Although of course sharing tips is helpful.

The point for me is that the UK population should not be and need not be in this position.

If we all just put on a few more jumpers, heat up some soup and hope not too many people will die, nothing is going to change. We need to be angry. We need to take action. One of the ways we can do that is to vote out Tories in the local elections in May. That will send a message to Johnson and Co.

Good people st @SamphiretheStickerist

It seems that , to some, coping is a dirty word.

But like you, I expect I'll be sticking round to help and encourage those who want help and encouragement

And reminding - metophorically - them the time to fix your roof is in the sunny settled time, not just as the storm is about to hit. So it does mean looking ahead, and lobbying about things like cutting reliance on fossil fuels especially at times when they're relatively cheap so easily overlooked in the political agenda.

So be angry, be active, get political.

Just don't make it 'the fault' of the older generations. We lived through such shit already. We will do so again, at the same time as everyone else does. That's just the nature of time.

And sadly you are wrong when you say most people will know, it isn't rocket science. The reason we, a group of community charities, are starting to plan for next winter, is that many of our clients, all ages, all education levels, all 'classes', show little common sense or ability to plan ahead. That is sometimes why they are our clients in the first place. Not everyone, no matter how well educated, how good a salary they have, can budget, compromise, manage during times of change, hardship.

The “back in my day” people tend to be out of touch and try and give “advice” that’s no longer relevant or doesn’t take peoples particular circumstances into account.

I would suggest it's more of a case that the advice given doesn't fit the entitled way of life some people think they should have.

I only came here read but I decided to comment.
When people saying that they had not heating in the 80s, single glazing etc I’m really gobsmacked.
I am originally from a properly communist country, only to went traveling/ short few months stay to the UK in the mid 90s as my original plan was to move to US eventually to fulfill my,,American dream I saw on TV in series as BeverlyHills 90210 etc LOL.
We always learned in school that the West is bad and people have no food/ heating/ water there.
When I moved to UK I was genuinely was shocked that the house I stayed as an au pair in had not double glazed windows or insulated walls as my old poor house in my old communist ridden out country already had automatically.
Even a shed in the garden was double glazed.
Also the room had no radiator, only the main rooms had one ( mine hasn’t as it was spare room. This was apprx in the 1996/1997.
Im was shocked as the lady I stayed was very well off, when I asked her about life standards she just said this is how we live.

I don’t understand how people can put up with current living standards as deciding to between having an oven on or a heating.
It seems it going back to deep into Victorian times really.

Since the 1970s fuel crisis, the times the government finances were in best shape was late 90s until mid 00s.

What do we have to show for what the government of that era spent on? Because that was the time to 'fix the roof' and I'm not sure we have that much to show for it. (Hoping someone will show there's more than I can think of right now)

I pointed out that if he got a new, cheaper phone contract and looked at how much he was spending on Sky he probably could. For example a single month without Sky would buy him a slow cooker and a fair few hats, gloves, scarves. If he went to charity shops he would find all sorts of blankets etc. If he did without even half of the Sky and phone packages he had he could stock up over summer, buying winter stuff in the coming sales

People should not have to cut out small luxuries like Sky to be able to heat their home or keep warm. Also, you often cannot just cancel contracts without having to pay financial penalties. Then there is the wider picture. If people cut down spending or stop spending on non-essential goods and services, the economy will tank, unemployment will rise etc,etc, etc

Again, the UK is a rich country. The government needs to be helping people on low or modest incomes much more.

@RancidOldHag

Since the 1970s fuel crisis, the times the government finances were in best shape was late 90s until mid 00s.

What do we have to show for what the government of that era spent on? Because that was the time to 'fix the roof' and I'm not sure we have that much to show for it. (Hoping someone will show there's more than I can think of right now)

Oh yes, let's blame Labour! The Tories have had over a decade to fix the roof. They chose to hammer the poor, fuck up the NHS and give their mates huge bungs instead.

No, they shoudn't but if the hierarchy of needs means something has to give, what do you suggest instead?

Cutting something else or fitting in further ways to earn?

@SquirrelG

Well, I’d have to disagree, seeing as I was talking from personal experience of having been offered out-of-date or useless (but well meaning) advice.

I pointed out that if he got a new, cheaper phone contract and looked at how much he was spending on Sky he probably could. For example a single month without Sky would buy him a slow cooker and a fair few hats, gloves, scarves. If he went to charity shops he would find all sorts of blankets etc. If he did without even half of the Sky and phone packages he had he could stock up over summer, buying winter stuff in the coming sales

I would suggest that if you are working for a charity and trying to communicate how someone could make changes and 'they turn their back on you", then maybe you could do with some training on communication skills.

I get that people can make changes and do spend money on things they don't need to.

I would also suggest that if you are trying to communicate that to people, then you need excellent communication skills.

@RancidOldHag

No, they shoudn't but if the hierarchy of needs means something has to give, what do you suggest instead?

Cutting something else or fitting in further ways to earn?

I suggest the government takes action.

Oh yes, let's blame Labour! The Tories have had over a decade to fix the roof. They chose to hammer the poor, fuck up the NHS and give their mates huge bungs instead

You seem to be overlooking the global financial crisis of the later 00s which ended the more affluent years.

The time there was money readily available in government coffers was the mid/late 90s to the mid 00s

It's not 'blame' to look at the economic cycle and when there was more readily available money to spend. Nor is it wrong to look at what we have to show for it.

Not if you want to learn from the past, rather than just go off on one about the Tories

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

I don't think it's about implying that it's ok to be cold in the UK in 2022, I think a lot of people feel that there are some who are completely over-egging this to a ridiculous degree.

I'm lucky in that I don't really feel the cold and I'm comfortable sitting in a house with the windows open in April, but at the same time I'm not buying people claiming they are 'literally freezing' because they can't have the central heating on for hours on end when ambient temperatures are mid-teens OUTSIDE!!!

Yeah, it's disgraceful that people can't afford to heat their homes how they wish in 2022, but it's hardly a Scott of the Antarctic situation in leafy Home Countiesshire right now. Some people just like to exaggerate everything for effect, and I think that's what's getting up the noses of some of the 'back in my day' generation.

What do you think winter is going yo be like, when prices go up again in October?

It's not just heating either its hot water which is needed the whole year and electricity.

I suggest the government takes action

What actions do you recommend?

(Just 'do something' sounds to me a bit like 'wave a magic wand')

Oh, god. The phones, the phones, the bloody phones. Do you know how much my contract (not "the latest iPhone", puke) would cost to end? £690, because most are now 3 years as standard. And I'd still need to either PAYG or get a sim-only deal after that. And yes, I do need a phone, because my internet has no landline service.