people who say the NHS is free?

[Sallygoround631]

It isn't free. This is truly absurd. It is funded by us, and always has been.

I see this so often on MN, and in all seriousness too, as if it is a free gift the government give to us.
I've read more than one poster suggesting we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic if the MHS wan't 'free', and that the US healthcare system would benefit us!
WTAF?
Because the US has never had an obesity issue....

How can anyone of adult age in the uk think the NHS costs us nothing?
Christ, and you wonder why the government takes the piss.

As others have said the NHS is free at point of entry.

I'm not blind to its failings and absolutely agree it could be made more efficient and less bureaucratic. I've witnessed frankly negligent failings with significant impact and personally could have died as a result of being told to go home by a triage nurse who at first blush assumed I was wasting her time - I had an ectopic and was bleeding internally.

It's easy to assume you cost less than you "put in" but the reality is we don't know what could happen. In my last pregnancy I was planning on going privately (as i tend to) but my daughter was born at 24 weeks unexpectedly. She wouldn't be here were it not for the NHS. She has had the benefit of probably nearly £400-500k's worth of treatment if you tot up the cost of the bed, treatment, scans, equipment, drs etc in her 4.5 month stay in hospital. My husband and I are higher earners and generally go privately where we can, but this would have been prohibitively expensive for us and likely outweighs what we've paid in. I know from speaking with another parent on the neonatal unit who was originally from the US that if he were in the USA, then the insurance would not have covered everything and quite often parents were left having to pick and choose what treatment to pursue for their babies which could have lifelong implications.

I get what you mean OP
It feels like there is an adult attitude of “you can’t complain as it’s free” even the GP receptionists give this impression when appointments are not available. But it isn’t actually free

The NHS is free to all British residents in the sense that you can choose not to work and therefore not pay NI but still benefit from the NHS.
Of course everyone pays tax in the form of vat.

In France health is 70 % paid for by the government, 30% by the patient, most people take out insurance for the 30%.
There is a long list of exceptions though.
All lifelong illnesses are covered free, many on low income are covered and unlike the UK social charges (NI) are taken from pensions if you retire early, at state pension age social charges stop.
Much fairer imo.
Also gp’s have less paperwork as patients receive their test results direct via email and take them to the dr if necessary which is one less job for gp’s.

I don't think it will be for much longer.
The current model is not sustainable.
Most of the staff,particularly the healthcare professionals, are wonderful dedicated hardworking professionals trying to do their best in a system that often functions against efficiently. But the NHS itself is so poorly run in many places it wastes resources.
Small cottage hospitals / locally run facilities can be really good and thrive but some big trusts are a joke. Look at the Shrewsbury maternity scandal and how many deaths it took before someone did something (and that was driven by families not the trust management).

On MN you very frequently get people telling posters that the NHS is free so they should be grateful for whatever appalling care they’ve had or haven’t had, but I don’t know whether those people actually think it’s free or whether they’re just arseholes.

It's free at the point òf access... most people know that NI and tax pay towards the NHS. Do you tell everyone that schools are not free either?

I think if you had to pay what we pay here in the US for insurance and then co-pays which means that in spite of paying hundreds of dollars in premiums each month you still need to pay to access health care you would consider the NHS to be free too.

@Mellowyellow222 I don't actually think many people get paracetamol on prescription. FFS my dh was told by a GPto go any buy cocodomol when he was in bad pain. The pharmacist could sell more than a few days worth and told us to contact our GP.
I have a long term vile skin condition and so I have to buy my own moisturiser, Barrier cream and soap substitute.

Not sell

Even buying paracetamol if you need 8 tabs a day is difficult as there are limits on the amount you can buy.

[quote Tynetime]@Mellowyellow222 I don't actually think many people get paracetamol on prescription. FFS my dh was told by a GPto go any buy cocodomol when he was in bad pain. The pharmacist could sell more than a few days worth and told us to contact our GP.
I have a long term vile skin condition and so I have to buy my own moisturiser, Barrier cream and soap substitute.[/quote]
The NHS in England has spent almost £400m prescribing paracetamol in the past five years at a cost of £3.23 per item, despite the pills being sold over the counter at a fraction of the cost.

I do think it is an issue. Think what £400m could fund.

I'm on a pregnancy Reddit group and an American woman on there posted her hospital bill. It was $76,000

Yes, we pay taxes to fund NHS, but it's not quite the same

@Borgonzola

I'm on a pregnancy Reddit group and an American woman on there posted her hospital bill. It was $76,000

Yes, we pay taxes to fund NHS, but it's not quite the same

No, but having lived in the US and used their healthcare system extensively due to an RTC, neither is the atandard of care or the level of accountability.

@Backofthenet20

The NHS is very inefficient. It is the worlds 5th biggest employer. Only the Chinese army, Mac Donald’s, Walmart & US defense employ more people. I have the advantage of using UK private health care, US health care & the NHS. I much prefer the private system where I book & see who I choose, when I choose. Our insurance is about $400/month & we spend about $2000 a year and even with chronic conditions. I prefer the US system where if I need to see my endocrinologist I ring & get in immediately. When I had Covid he saw me the next day by telemedicine & got me immediate treatment through the hospital. In the UK the endocrinologist took 3 months even in an urgent referral. The system is just broken. My Dad has been waiting for a knee replacement for 5 years, couldn’t get past his GP. A reform of the NHS is long overdue

Fantastic that you can see who you choose when you want etc.

In the NHS though, you can see someone even if you can’t afford or don’t have £400 per month. So as a teen mum I could give birth for totally free and was asked for absolutely nothing. An unemployed man who was run over by a car can have treatment. A single parent who works but on minimum wage can have their child seen. And so on.

And obviously I’m not saying oh you should be grateful they cut off your left leg instead of your right arm because it’s free. You still absolutely can (and should) complain if you receive substandard care at any point. But saying it’s not free and it’s terrible/the American system is so much better just makes you sound like you’re trying to make an argument out of nothing. If you really think the American system is better move to a country like America and use that instead. Nobody is forcing you to stay and use the NHS.

We do have family in America and from what I can see their system is not all that great for those in minimum wage jobs ie retail/service etc. It’s a worry for them much of the time.

@Mellowyellow222 fair enough. I just know our local area won't prescribe it.

That is just so typical of the response when anyone dares to question that there are other systems that work. I too found the US system better, and I actually lived there which formed my opinion rather than the 'he said she said' of most people proffering their opinion on the healthcare of America. No, it's not perfect but I was working behind a bar and managed my insurance, in fact it was a requirement of my contract. I don't want to go and live there again as the people I love are here in the UK. You're being ridiculous

Totally agree, also “free” Covid tests! 😂

@TheSnootiestFox

That is just so typical of the response when anyone dares to question that there are other systems that work. I too found the US system better, and I actually lived there which formed my opinion rather than the 'he said she said' of most people proffering their opinion on the healthcare of America. No, it's not perfect but I was working behind a bar and managed my insurance, in fact it was a requirement of my contract. I don't want to go and live there again as the people I love are here in the UK. You're being ridiculous

I have a chronic condition which involved me requiring very expensive medication as a child. I was lucky to receive this on the NHS with no extra cost to my family for my entire childhood. Meanwhile I am in touch with people with the same condition in the US. One parent told us she could afford this medication for just one year IF she remortaged their home and was asking which year of her life would be best to give this treatment. That child through nothing but chance is at a significant disadvantage through no fault of her own. You think the US system is better because you presumably haven't had a life altering or chronic condition and therefore haven't tested it to its limits. Sorry though nothing you say is going to convince me that a private system is fairer or more cost effective when the evidence strongly says that this simply isn't the case. I don't want our healthcare system to put the poor and vulnerable at even more of a disadvantage and reality is neither would you if you WERE the poor or disadvantaged...

There are social insurance methods that we should be seriously considering and other single payer government systems that have better outcomes than the NHS. We need to drop treating the NHS like a secular religion and look seriously about how to get good value for ageing unhealthy population.

Also (I'm sure this has been said), National Insurance does not fund the NHS other in the very broadest sense of being a general government slush fund.

I am in Switzerland staying with a friend. Her children get a paediatrician check up every year, as a matter of course. Meanwhile, back in the UK, I had to pay several grand for my DD to see a paediatrician privately as the NHS services wouldn't even take a referral for the whole of 2020.

@echt

It's free at the point of access, which is what people mean. But I think you know that, OP.

Indeed she does. She's another one shilling for the Tories.

It's free at point of delivery, but of course it still needs paying for!
We are extremely lucky in this country. I once saw an American invoice for a Caesarean section, every part of care down was itemised. The cost was eye watering!

This describes the Swiss system. I would really like to broaden the discussion in the UK from "the NHS versus America."

www.sanitas.com/en/private-customers/life-events/immigrating-or-emigrating/new-to-switzerland/swiss-healthcare-system.html

I pay 2.5k in taxes every month minimum. I assume some of this finds its way into the NHS.

The fact is for some people, rather a lot, they don't see that they are paying.
They don't pay tax. They maybe don't work - not talking about seniors who have paid lots of taxes all their life. So they don't think about it. Some people literally do nothing which financially engages them with society around them. This is a sad and universal fact.

It is free. You pay your NI and taxes and some of those are towards the NHS. You don't pay separately for health. You don't have to re-mortgage or sell your house because you have cancer, or your DP has cancer or you child/sister/brother/dad has cancer. Your kids don't pay. Your retirees don't pay. People who can't work don't pay. The health-ish, fit to work contribute. What is of more importance to ANY nation than the health of its' people?? Healthy people contribute, earn, develop, pay taxes for the benefit of everyone.
Have lived in US, with AMAZING work health insurance, and it still cost me a fortune in 'deductibles' despite being 'healthy'.
Your should be thankful ever day for the NHS and vote for whichever Party will protect and invest in it.