people who say the NHS is free?

[Sallygoround631]

It isn't free. This is truly absurd. It is funded by us, and always has been.

I see this so often on MN, and in all seriousness too, as if it is a free gift the government give to us.
I've read more than one poster suggesting we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic if the MHS wan't 'free', and that the US healthcare system would benefit us!
WTAF?
Because the US has never had an obesity issue....

How can anyone of adult age in the uk think the NHS costs us nothing?
Christ, and you wonder why the government takes the piss.

I don’t think that is always the case with everyone, do you?

But there are many reasons why people can't do all they can eg mental health, time, money, resources, knowledge. I'm not sure how much is deliberate.

@AchillesPoirot

I’m sorry you are struggling but I’m not actually being offensive to disabled people.

It is also sometimes ok to judge people, that’s how we make changes. To be clear, I’m not judging disabled people at all and do not resent spending but there is a large chunk of NHS money that is spent on people who could quite literally get better themselves but don’t bother. I think they do deserve judgement.

I don’t always do the best for my physical health because it’s better for my mental health to to eat the damn crisps.

How do you judge that choice?

@70isaLimitNotaTarget

I think (as an NHS worker) that patients should know exactly how much a missed appointment costs the NHS .

From the Admin to the letter
The building ( a lot of NHS sites are rented )
Heating , lighting, maintaining
Security
The time of the clinician who is waiting ( and yes there's always something I can be getting on with , but I have to wait for them)
Then I have to contact them , might have to ring 2-3 contact numbers
Upload , print and send a Non Attendance letter .
And of course I'm still paid ( but I don;t get paid extra for overtime)

If they were told Missing your appointment costs the NHS £x
Dentists can /do charge .
Other HCP don't .

I got told off about this but they kept making appointments for a time I couldn't do. Apparently needing to rearrange is the same as missing an appointment.

[quote hamstersarse]@AchillesPoirot

I’m sorry you are struggling but I’m not actually being offensive to disabled people.

It is also sometimes ok to judge people, that’s how we make changes. To be clear, I’m not judging disabled people at all and do not resent spending but there is a large chunk of NHS money that is spent on people who could quite literally get better themselves but don’t bother. I think they do deserve judgement.[/quote]
You actually are judging disabled people. That’s exactly what you are doing. And that’s nasty and horrible. And ableist.

I’m literally not @AchillesPoirot but there we go

Oh you are.

You think you’re entitled to judge whether I’m doing “enough” to improve my health.

What if i wasn’t, in your eyes? Would there be some sort of hotline you could report me to? And what then!? I’d be called into an office for some sort of steen matron type to tick me off and send me off with a report to try harder?

*stern

[quote FrankLeeSpeaking]It's free at the point of use, which is what people mean.
Generally over a lifetime, people will use more than they put in.
You can calculate a rough estimate of how much you've "cost" the NHS here: www.gocompare.com/health-insurance/the-bill-of-health/[/quote]
I've cost over 25k. In fact its more because it doesn't include my hysterectomy or the op I had last year to put pins and a plate in my fractured shoulder.

it doesn't include mental health which costs a lot, though I've not cost the NHS much for my own mental health. Useful rough guide though!

As someone who has chronic health issues and has tried going down the private route and ended up wasting £££££’s, I am very thankful for the NHS. And yes it’s not free as in it’s funded by our taxes but I rather this than live somewhere like the states where people have to put up with pain and long term issues etc because only the rich/hugh earners can access good treatment. I personally am very, very thankful for the NHS.

@hamstersarse

Using that calculator I’ve cost the NHS £4750

I pay £25k in tax a year

I’m 47 so I better get ill pretty quick to get my moneys worth

It pisses me off that there is no responsibility put on people for their health in the uk. So many preventable costs put on the NHS and all we say is ‘give it more money’. How about people take some responsibilty for their health?

There is a lot of money spent in prevention - health promotion and public health campaigns - but people are not massively receptive to it- eg the measuring programme in schools there is a long running thread about it just this week and another about screening questions in pregnancy which are also preventative/ early support ...and breastfeeding promotion, Change 4 life etc

@AchillesPoirot

Oh you are.

You think you’re entitled to judge whether I’m doing “enough” to improve my health.

What if i wasn’t, in your eyes? Would there be some sort of hotline you could report me to? And what then!? I’d be called into an office for some sort of steen matron type to tick me off and send me off with a report to try harder?

I commented that many people do not take responsibility for their health and it costs the NHS a lot of money. Not you, in fact I said the opposite about you,

If you think that is objectively false, fine, but you are playing a weird deliberately obtuse game now. Crack on

What are you envisaging @hamstersarse for those you judge as “not taking responsibility” for their health?

How will they be punished?

@hamstersarse

Using that calculator I’ve cost the NHS £4750

I pay £25k in tax a year

I’m 47 so I better get ill pretty quick to get my moneys worth

It pisses me off that there is no responsibility put on people for their health in the uk. So many preventable costs put on the NHS and all we say is ‘give it more money’. How about people take some responsibilty for their health?

According to that calculator I cost the NHS £174 (for the last 5 years I've had a 6 monthly HRT prescription and no other appointments) and I pay £27k in taxes. We have no children, my high earning DH uses a private GP. We are definitely net contributors.

It’s also interesting that while people here rave about healthcare in Europe, there are so many Brits living abroad who return to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

This is because the healthcare systems in most European countries are contributions based ie you have to prove you are paying taxes and “regularised” in the system to be eligible for state-funded healthcare. If you are a Brit who’s flying under the radar, not paying taxes, living on cash in hand work or undeclared income, then you will not be eligible for state funded healthcare. The NHS on the other hand is residence based - if you can demonstrate that you live in the U.K. you are eligible for free at the point of provision healthcare. Because NHS staff are so unused to asking people to prove eligibility (just the fact you have a British accent is often enough) it’s pretty much open door.

Having lived in the U.K. and France, the healthcare here in France is miles better. Far more focus on prevention, far more individualised service.

@echt

It's free at the point of access, which is what people mean. But I think you know that, OP.

This! Okay he cost doesn’t go up if you use it intensely. It’s a fixed amount based on your income.

This is why I fond it frustrating when people abuse it - get paracetamol on prescription, make appointments for common colds etc.

I consider myself fortunate every day that I've not had to make excessive use of NHS services. I'm not interested in getting my money's worth or getting back what I've paid in. I'm almost certainly a net contributor at the moment but who knows what will happen in future. It may not be free but I'm glad I live in a society where everyone who needs it gets healthcare.

I commented that many people do not take responsibility for their health and it costs the NHS a lot of money.

As I said before how are you measuring this? Give examples of people who are not taking responsibility for their health?

drinkers? smokers? bad diet? sun lovers? people who don't exercise? people who do too much exercise? eating disorders? dangerous drivers? extreme sports? diy enthusiasts?

I commented that many people do not take responsibility for their health and it costs the NHS a lot of money. Not you, in fact I said the opposite about you

It’s a moralising statement based on prejudice not facts and you can’t run a health system on that basis.

It’s a moralising statement based on prejudice not facts and you can’t run a health system on that basis.

Well said.

Why be so pedantic, it’s petty people know its funded from taxation

It’s free at the point of service. Use a health service that isn’t or your work choices health insurance needs to be taken into consideration you will soon appreciate the difference

@HRTQueen

Why be so pedantic, it’s petty people know its funded from taxation

It’s free at the point of service. Use a health service that isn’t or your work choices health insurance needs to be taken into consideration you will soon appreciate the difference

Do they though?

Some people do of course, we aren't all idiots. But the amount of people that think education at university and prescriptions are provided free in Scotland out of the generosity of the snp is quite insane. As other posters said, some people think that other services are free and that no one pays for them. Some people are just stupid.

I don’t think anyone is so stupid they think that GP services, hospitals and all the other services are not funded they just do not know exactly how it’s funded (or how much is now managed by private companies) why would people know this unless they have extensive knowledge of the complexities of how the NHS works (I’m still surprised at times as only work for one trust but things are run quite differently in the area I work in in the neighbouring trust we know this as we have a programme to work together)

Why would someone in Kent know that prescriptions are free in Scotland it’s not necessary for them to know that or university fees

I have no idea what exactly my council tax pays for I know it’s gone up and my bins are not collected as regularly as they are meant to be and I don’t know what the borough next to me pays

Should I let the NHS know just how much it has cost me because I wasn't seen on time?

Lol good point. I'm not self employed but I do have to take a half day's annual leave because even a twenty minute appointment with a supposedly set time usually involves at least two hours of sitting around waiting. I wonder how much the NHS costs the economy in lost productivity due to millions of other workers doing the same every day up and down the country.

Maybe we need a poster setting put the cost of that.

*out