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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

people who say the NHS is free?

251 replies

Sallygoround631 · 02/04/2022 00:17

It isn't free. This is truly absurd. It is funded by us, and always has been.

I see this so often on MN, and in all seriousness too, as if it is a free gift the government give to us.
I've read more than one poster suggesting we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic if the MHS wan't 'free', and that the US healthcare system would benefit us!
WTAF?
Because the US has never had an obesity issue....

How can anyone of adult age in the uk think the NHS costs us nothing?
Christ, and you wonder why the government takes the piss.

OP posts:
MissMaple82 · 02/04/2022 08:30

You sound like you are with that crass comment Blush

LadyCatStark · 02/04/2022 08:33

It’s free for those that don’t pay tax and national insurance. And those are the people who have more time to go to appointments. How May of us working people have put off going to appointments because we’re not allowed to arrange them in work time. How many have forgone a prescription because we can’t afford it this month? How many have put off dental treatment because we can’t afford it or even a check up? How many of us are wearing glasses with an old prescription because we can’t afford new ones?

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 02/04/2022 08:35

I am very grateful that I can have emergency healthcare without plummeting into debt. I am very grateful that I had two children without worrying if my insurance would cover it. I am very grateful that I don’t have to worry about going bankrupt if someone in my family becomes seriously ill. That would really be the cherry on top of the worst time in my life.

No, the NHS is not free. I pay a huge amount of my monthly salary in tax and so does my DH. I don’t begrudge paying for it. It’s a lot more ‘free’ than places like America where they miraculously survive a horrific car crash only to be handed a huge bill. I’ve read things online about parents telling their children never to ring an ambulance because of the cost of it. I’ll stick with our way!

Could the NHS be better? Of course it could. What I see though is the government making endless budget cuts to the NHS (along with many other sectors) but putting our taxes up.

Dynamicsloth · 02/04/2022 08:43

Can I point out that non working people do still pay taxes, VAT being the obvious one. It is not just taxes on employment that contribute to public funds.

tontown · 02/04/2022 08:43

I am very grateful that I don’t have to worry about going bankrupt if someone in my family becomes seriously ill.

Tbf job security is also relevant when ill. My BIL was very ill over lockdown & spent 6 wks in hospital & a few months recovering. His work were fantastic & so was SILs. It made me think about those on zero hours & insecure jobs who could easily lose everything if a family member gets seriously ill.

newbiename · 02/04/2022 08:44

@Lunar27 agreed. However, I really don't think people understand how much everything actually costs and believe their NI fully pays for their hospital event.
NHS also badly run and haemorrhages money.
Eg My partner was in for a night. I said he didn't need any drugs to take home. They sent a 7 day supply of all his tablets.

CuddlyCactus · 02/04/2022 08:45

@Quornflakegirl

It is free for those who need it.

What we pay in NI isn’t nearly what Americans pay for their NOT free healthcare. My sister had a baby in the US and the bill was 30k for a straight forward delivery, she still paid 2k toward it. They paid 20k annually for healthcare. So yes, it is free when needed.

One of the reasons healthcare is so expensive in USA is because it is run by organisations who are profit-making. The insurance companies, hospital owners, ambulance services are all taking a large cut before the patient gets anywhere near a doctor!
Dishwashersaurous · 02/04/2022 08:46

Lots and lots of people don't pay any NI or taxes but still get medical treatment so for them personally it's free.

Yellownightmare · 02/04/2022 08:46

Bunty55
Well it is free for those who do not work isn't it?
No, because they pay taxes too.

If you mean they pay VAT and council tax, well, yes, but that doesn't begin to cover the cost of the services they use. But I want to live in a country that covers the cost of all of the healthcare and education for people who live here. Because that's what I consider a civilised society.

Having said that, I'd charge people who ring up for an ambulance because they can't get a taxi. And I think people should use pharmacists first for minor issues. And try their best to look after their own health by trying to lose weight if they're morbidly obese etc. The NHS is a precious resource and we should do our best not to abuse it.

sst1234 · 02/04/2022 08:47

@Yellowleadbetter

I was absolutely gobsmacked when I saw a fb post from a woman in America who had given birth. There was a picture of her gorgeous new born then a picture of her bill, it was £19k! I was shocked, we have no idea of how much hospital procedures cost.

After loosing a baby I couldn’t get it out of my mind, I would be presented with that bill after the loss of a baby. I wonder how that works.(I get that they have health insurance, but not everyone does)

These kind of anecdotes are incredibly unhelpful. The US system is not perfect, but over 65s and low paid do get Medicare and Medicaid. Others pay insurance. The US healthcare is vastly superior to what we have. Kidding yourself that the NHS is superior and patting ourselves on the back for feeding this failing behemoth isn’t helping heath outcomes in this country.
Dishwashersaurous · 02/04/2022 08:48

And it's free because there is no correlation between your ability to pay and your treatment that you get

If you haven’t paid much tax then you still get treatment.

It's free at the point of use. That is what it has always been referred to as. Not free.

FREE AT THE POINT OF USE

tontown · 02/04/2022 08:52

there is a procurement issue. I was offered paracetamol at discharge once, I asked how much it would cost them & they said £4. That's ridiculous, so I just bought it myself. But why can't they negotiate prices on par with supermarkets?

Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 08:53

[quote newbiename]@Lunar27 agreed. However, I really don't think people understand how much everything actually costs and believe their NI fully pays for their hospital event.
NHS also badly run and haemorrhages money.
Eg My partner was in for a night. I said he didn't need any drugs to take home. They sent a 7 day supply of all his tablets. [/quote]
Definitely. I wonder why this information isn't more widely published/publicised to help people appreciate what the service costs. It would help with the lack of understanding.

It's really difficult to conclude that the NHS needs more money when it's not clear what things cost vs the inefficiency.

Quornflakegirl · 02/04/2022 08:54

cuddlycactus so yes, it is free then. Not making money off sick people and proving healthcare for everyone, employed or not means we don’t pay to live.

tontown · 02/04/2022 08:56

Having said that, I'd charge people who ring up for an ambulance because they can't get a taxi. And I think people should use pharmacists first for minor issues. And try their best to look after their own health by trying to lose weight if they're morbidly obese etc. The NHS is a precious resource and we should do our best not to abuse it.

How does this work in practice though? There are socio economic links to obesity. What about binge drinkers, drug users, extreme sports enthusiasts or drivers who speed. How do you really separate who is "abusing" the NHS?

Hoowhoowho · 02/04/2022 08:57

It’s not free but it is incredibly cheap. We spend very little of our GDP on healthcare. Less even than the US which does not have free at the point of use care for everyone. We could afford to spend
a little more.

Wheniruletheworld · 02/04/2022 08:57

[quote NewYearSoon]@70isaLimitNotaTarget
“I think (as an NHS worker) that patients should know exactly how much a missed appointment costs the NHS .”

“ If they were told Missing your appointment costs the NHS £x”

My local hospital trust does. I hadn’t realised they didn’t all do it.[/quote]
By all means, let me know how much a missed appointment costs the NHS. All the letters I receive do this very thing. But I am self-employed, and spend many hours waiting past given appointment time. Should I let the NHS know just how much it has cost me because I wasn't seen on time?
The answer is of course not. I am a retired nurse, I know what it's like; patients, like the staff running the NHS are human, they don't conform to neat time slots/healing trajectories etc. However, letting people know treatment costings is pointless; those who abuse NHS will not care, those that genuinely can't at4end an appointment will be feeling bad enough anyway

Spidey66 · 02/04/2022 08:59

@Lightning020

We also have to pay for our prescriptions. Most of us do anyway.
In actual fact, most of us don't. Something like 90% of uk prescriptions are dispensed free of charge, mostly for over people. I get free prescriptions via a medical exemption as I have an underactive thyroid, though if they told me tomorrow they'd continue to give me thyroxine for free but I'd be charged for everything else I'd be OK with that. Obviously I take it without taking the piss but actually I can afford them. I work as a community mental health nurse and during lockdown 1 had to contact a patient with depression. One of the concerns was he'd stopped taking his medication....anti depressants, statins and meds for hypertension. He told me he'd started his own painting and decorating company but couldn't work due to lockdown, couldn't qualify for the government funding as he'd not been in business long enough so was waiting on a UC claim but couldn't afford his prescriptions. I felt bad for him cos I was getting mine for free and was in a position to pay for mine!

And certain parts of the UK like Northern Ireland give them all free!

Lunar27 · 02/04/2022 08:59

@tontown

there is a procurement issue. I was offered paracetamol at discharge once, I asked how much it would cost them & they said £4. That's ridiculous, so I just bought it myself. But why can't they negotiate prices on par with supermarkets?
Essentially because parts of the NHS are completely useless. We often hear that procurement wastes millions because they simply cannot run this part effectively.

Part of this is because people aren't treating it as a business and it's not their money. Hence why there are calls to privatise, which isn't the answer, but we do need to treat some key aspects like a business.

Crazykatie · 02/04/2022 09:02

@Yellowleadbetter

I was absolutely gobsmacked when I saw a fb post from a woman in America who had given birth. There was a picture of her gorgeous new born then a picture of her bill, it was £19k! I was shocked, we have no idea of how much hospital procedures cost.

After loosing a baby I couldn’t get it out of my mind, I would be presented with that bill after the loss of a baby. I wonder how that works.(I get that they have health insurance, but not everyone does)

Health companies do of course operate for a profit but part of their cost is Medical Negligence Insurance which is astronomic, a routine birth is very expensive because of insurance claims and compensation which my go wrong. The NHS also has large negligence claims but not on the scale of the US.
lonelyapple · 02/04/2022 09:03

Lots of people don't pay tax or NI, so for them it is free.

HermioneWeasley · 02/04/2022 09:14

Most of the world manages just fine with a middle ground between fully socialised medicine (us and Denmark) and all private (America). Most countries in Europe for example, people pay additional private health insurance, which is why their service is so much better.

The NHS model isn’t workable any more.

In Singapore people get allocated annual points against their government provided healthcare, so if you want to see a GP, that will be 10 points etc. enough to cover people, but means you turn up for your appointment or are charged.

AchillesPoirot · 02/04/2022 09:15

And try their best to look after their own health by trying to lose weight if they're morbidly obese etc

How on earth would you ever measure the is?

The drugs the nhs gave me to treat one condition made me fat. For a start. And many drugs used to treat mental health conditions have weight gain as a side effect.

AchillesPoirot · 02/04/2022 09:15

*this

balalake · 02/04/2022 09:18

The NHS is largely no charges at the point of use, especially for emergencies. Parts have not been free at the point of use since 1950 (dental, opticians for example, there was one other if I remember correctly from reading a biography of Nye Bevan).

I agree it is far from perfect, and the health issues and challenges faced in 1948 are a far cry from those in 2022. I want a better NHS, not the areas where it is poor being an excuse to privatise it. Or be a reason as in the pandemic for it to be a large money making exercise for friends of the government.