people who say the NHS is free?

[Sallygoround631]

It isn't free. This is truly absurd. It is funded by us, and always has been.

I see this so often on MN, and in all seriousness too, as if it is a free gift the government give to us.
I've read more than one poster suggesting we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic if the MHS wan't 'free', and that the US healthcare system would benefit us!
WTAF?
Because the US has never had an obesity issue....

How can anyone of adult age in the uk think the NHS costs us nothing?
Christ, and you wonder why the government takes the piss.

I don't quite get the 'pay more than we consume' reckoning. If you are never ill, if you send your DC to private school, then you could be on a lower income and still consume less than you pay.

Gosh, people are really getting their knickers in a twist aren’t they?!! When people say ‘free’ I’m sure they’re just thinking about other models where you have to have a separate insurance policy which is far more expensive that our taxes. I just can’t get annoyed about this when I realise that some people can’t even afford to get an ambulance in America. I had to get three in 2019 due to my medical condition 🤷‍♀️

I work for the NHS I've had people telling me 'I pay my National insurance every month'
Yes and it probably doesn't cover the cost of a night in hospital.

I was absolutely gobsmacked when I saw a fb post from a woman in America who had given birth.
There was a picture of her gorgeous new born then a picture of her bill, it was £19k!
I was shocked, we have no idea of how much hospital procedures cost.

After loosing a baby I couldn’t get it out of my mind, I would be presented with that bill after the loss of a baby. I wonder how that works.(I get that they have health insurance, but not everyone does)

@newbiename

I work for the NHS I've had people telling me 'I pay my National insurance every month' Yes and it probably doesn't cover the cost of a night in hospital.

This. And my very comfortably off MIL who spouts 'I've paid my stamp' which equates to working up to 26 when her first DC was born and then never again. At 80 with several LTC I think she's doing quite nicely out of it.

There was a picture of her gorgeous new born then a picture of her bill, it was £19k! I was shocked, we have no idea of how much hospital procedures cost.

Salaries of doctors, etc are much higher than the UK. Plus lots of young people are foregoing having dc.

Well, perhaps go somewhere like the states where what treatment you’re entitled to depends on what kind of insurance you have and whether they agree to it. And if they don’t, think about having to sell your house to repay your medical costs.

Of course taxes fund the nhs, however NHS is free at the point of contact, but you knew that, but started a goady disingenuous thread anyway.

In the past 5.5 years I have cost the nhs literally hundreds of thousands of pounds. Several ambulance trips, 3 stays in ICU, two of which were on a ventilator, around 3 weeks on oxygen, several hundred ECG’s, several thousand blood tests, time on kidney filtration, a mitraclip worth about 50k and the surgery to insert said mitraclip. An ICD worth about 40k and the surgery to insert it. CPR, defibrillation, adrenaline, several echo scans, heart MRI, chest x-rays, liver ultrasound, kidney ultrasound, hundreds of appointments to see the heart failure team and consultant, fitness test, referrals to the transplant clinic.

I’m sure there’s more, but I’m also sure that it’s cost the NHS more than I’ve ever earned let alone more than I’ve paid in tax.

Cool your tits love

Clearly you don't think you are being unreasonable so what's the point of posting, really.

I work for the NHS I've had people telling me 'I pay my National insurance every month' I was in the INR clinic once and they were running late because of people who had essentially just walked in fearing they had DVT or similar and they can’t really turn them away. And there were two blokes sitting there complaining that they’d been waiting for 15 minutes and declaring that “I think I should be allowed to have my national insurance contributions back.” Err ok then.

However you dress it NHS is a very poor quality fo service. It is inconsistent and unreliable. It really depends on luck if a particular doctor/surgeery/hospital is decent. OP, it is a very good point to remind it is not free because people forget it is the service paid by us and we actually should expect a bit more. Also high earners who generate most revenue for the social services very rarely use them. In regards medical expenses, most would use a private insurance and won't rely on NHS.

@Yellowleadbetter

I was absolutely gobsmacked when I saw a fb post from a woman in America who had given birth. There was a picture of her gorgeous new born then a picture of her bill, it was £19k! I was shocked, we have no idea of how much hospital procedures cost.

After loosing a baby I couldn’t get it out of my mind, I would be presented with that bill after the loss of a baby. I wonder how that works.(I get that they have health insurance, but not everyone does)

A big chunk of that cost will include profit.

That’s why the NHS model is better because it was supposed to strip out the profit motive. That was until you had the stupid idea of trying to introduce markets into the nhs (absolute bullshit) and some private provision.

The NHS works well when it is properly funded. It hasn’t been so funnily enough, it isn’t.

I've had some great NHS experiences personally but don't agree that there isn't room for improvement & scrutiny. Look at the recent Shrewsbury maternity report, that is shocking.

@newbiename

I work for the NHS I've had people telling me 'I pay my National insurance every month' Yes and it probably doesn't cover the cost of a night in hospital.

Sure but isn't that the point of the NHS? Noone really pays enough, other than a few high earners, but collectively it works, almost. Therefore paying your bit is enough.

Shame, the NHS is so inefficient and too big to reform easily but in principle it's a great system.

Re the OP, it is essentially free for a large number of people. Anyone wholly on benefits receives free healthcare. Ok they may pay VAT but on unearned income.

It isn’t just about how the NHS is funded though, it’s also about what it funds.

When the NHS was founded there were a lot of illnesses and treatments which as yet were unknown, and since then those treatments have increased and people believe the NHS as was should still be paying for them all. There are a lot of things which shouldn’t be funded but if you’re the one with the condition then you are likely to believe that they should.

Treatments with such a low success rate such as IVF absolutely shouldn’t be funded by the NHS for instance, especially when IVF carries a higher risk of premature birth and a higher risk of developing cancer in the future. We should be saving existing lives, not creating new ones.

NHS is free at source, same as state schools, roads, fire brigade, police, waste collection

I absolutely got a lecture from an A&E doctor about how much a CT scan cost (I hadn't asked for one, my GP sent me to A&E owing to sudden onset leg numbness) and you aren't having a stroke, it's not worth the cost of the scan, I don't know why you are here etc etc. Anyway, guess what a consultant neurologist diagnosed me with 2 weeks later, a mini-stroke. But yes, I fully understand it isn't free. My NI out of my pay packet certainly rams that home.

It’s also interesting that while people here rave about healthcare in Europe, there are so many Brits living abroad who return to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

Lower income lower taxes. We need the middle and higher income workers to fund this through taxation. Argument the other day with a higher income friend who said there should be more SEN provision etc. I said “we” meaning the tax payer don’t pay for this through our taxes.

@Iwonder08

However you dress it NHS is a very poor quality fo service. It is inconsistent and unreliable. It really depends on luck if a particular doctor/surgeery/hospital is decent. OP, it is a very good point to remind it is not free because people forget it is the service paid by us and we actually should expect a bit more. Also high earners who generate most revenue for the social services very rarely use them. In regards medical expenses, most would use a private insurance and won't rely on NHS.

You’re forgetting about regressive taxes like VAT. Someone on lower income will pay a higher proportion of their income as a result.

And finally not all taxes are on individuals.

Also higher earners may not always be higher earners, and lower earners may not always be lower earners, so it’s logical fallacy to suggest what you are suggesting.

Having universally funded public services is very efficient when run properly. But when you have a government who ultimately doesn’t agree with the principle, of course it’ll be run into the ground.

I think the NHS is a bargain when you think of what you could get for that. Have a heart attack? NHS will treat you. Brain tumour? NHS will treat you. Your child breaks their arm? Nhs will treat it.

Look at the hot mess made of privatised services like rail, energy etc. can you imagine what state this country would make of a NHS which was privatised? The covid scandals of the Tories bunging cash to their mates should be the warning as to why we shouldn’t sell it off.

It is free for those who need it.

What we pay in NI isn’t nearly what Americans pay for their NOT free healthcare. My sister had a baby in the US and the bill was 30k for a straight forward delivery, she still paid 2k toward it. They paid 20k annually for healthcare. So yes, it is free when needed.

@Sunflowersinthewind

I absolutely got a lecture from an A&E doctor about how much a CT scan cost (I hadn't asked for one, my GP sent me to A&E owing to sudden onset leg numbness) and you aren't having a stroke, it's not worth the cost of the scan, I don't know why you are here etc etc. Anyway, guess what a consultant neurologist diagnosed me with 2 weeks later, a mini-stroke. But yes, I fully understand it isn't free. My NI out of my pay packet certainly rams that home.

Your NI doesn’t fund the NHS. Where on earth has that come from?

@Bunty55

Well it is free for those who do not work isn't it?

No, because they pay taxes too.

National Insurance and taxes pay for the NHS sorry.

Free at point of access, which is the important point.

It’s also interesting that while people here rave about healthcare in Europe, there are so many Brits living abroad who return to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

Probably because they are retirees