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To ask why he was in the changing room next door?

128 replies

jessieminto · 01/04/2022 19:53

Met police officer caught filming woman as she undressed in Primark.

Sorry for the DM link, and hopefully I've pasted it right.

Nowhere in the article does it say why he was in the cubicle next door, with free and easy access to slide a phone under the gap and do this.

Are the changing rooms in Primark not spectated by male/female anymore?

mol.im/a/10676217

OP posts:
jessieminto · 02/04/2022 12:14

So what do we actually do to get stores like Primark and M&S to listen to us? Other than refuse to give them my money, what else can I do?

OP posts:
FromOurHatsToOurFeet · 02/04/2022 12:37

jessieminto The Baroness wrote to M&S, who wrote back, and then back tracked.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9032049/M-S-DENY-U-turning-allowing-self-identifying-women-female-changing-rooms.html

I've stopped shopping there.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 02/04/2022 13:47

@jessieminto

So what do we actually do to get stores like Primark and M&S to listen to us? Other than refuse to give them my money, what else can I do?
Nothing. They won't listen. We've (lots of individual women on here) tried. They branded us bigots and told us our discomfort was less important than trans-id'd males. The Baroness tried, they agreed with her and then immediately backtracked once the trans rights activists kicked up a fuss.

No-one listens to women on this. No-one cares.

All you can do is not shop there, but as this is pretty much every single shop, you're basically out of options.

junglejane66 · 02/04/2022 13:50

The dirty devil

purpleme12 · 02/04/2022 13:59

I don't understand it
Honestly I don't
Surely most women in this world or country think cubicles with curtains should be single sex
I just don't believe that most women wouldn't think this

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 02/04/2022 15:26

@purpleme12

I don't understand it Honestly I don't Surely most women in this world or country think cubicles with curtains should be single sex I just don't believe that most women wouldn't think this
It doesn't matter what most women think. It only matters what makes transwomen happy.

Women with vaginas = not important
Women with penises = very very important

Icantfly · 02/04/2022 15:42

@purpleme12

I don't understand it Honestly I don't Surely most women in this world or country think cubicles with curtains should be single sex I just don't believe that most women wouldn't think this
Women have been saying it matters to them for years and they’re called ‘terfs’ for it. They’re arrested for it. They’re sent rape and death threats for it.
jessieminto · 02/04/2022 19:57

I'm in my 40's and happily frumpy. I'm prepared to never buy clothes again at this stage. I've got plenty to keep me going. I will not validate this nonsense by giving money to companies that let this happen. Not one fucking penny.

OP posts:
Foilball · 03/04/2022 05:59

I genuinely don't understand why commenters are linking this to trans women. The person who took the photos is male, identifies as male. Is it because the changing rooms are unisex?

It seems to me that like met police officers are more of a threat to the safety of women

MaryTheWitch · 03/04/2022 06:20

@Foilball

I genuinely don't understand why commenters are linking this to trans women. The person who took the photos is male, identifies as male. Is it because the changing rooms are unisex?

It seems to me that like met police officers are more of a threat to the safety of women

Because by letting transwomen or men who identify as women into changing rooms, they have literally opened the door for men like this Met officer to just stroll on into our changing rooms as well. He won't have been challenged because how are the staff at Primark supposed to spot the difference between a man who identifies as a woman or a pervert?
MaryTheWitch · 03/04/2022 06:22

And yes, you're right - Met officers ARE a threat to women's safety. And now they have free reign in our previously segregated spaces.

hugr · 03/04/2022 06:26

@jessieminto

Met police officer caught filming woman as she undressed in Primark.

Sorry for the DM link, and hopefully I've pasted it right.

Nowhere in the article does it say why he was in the cubicle next door, with free and easy access to slide a phone under the gap and do this.

Are the changing rooms in Primark not spectated by male/female anymore?

mol.im/a/10676217

Seems transphobic... no mention of self ID or posing as trans woman in article yet a few replies are quite derogatory towards trans women.
aweegc · 03/04/2022 07:15

The issue with trans women in this scenario is this: who is a trans woman? And it's not hate to understand what we're talking about (tip: issue might not be trans people, read on).

In order for a man to be a trans woman re accessing Women’s changing rooms, all he has to do is say "I'm a woman". He does not need to wear any specific clothes, does not have to have gender dysphoria, does not have to have had surgery or be taking hormones, does not have to have shaved his beard. He can look like my dad or your brother or Dodgy Bob at the pub. His words are what is important here.

Only not even that. Nobody can challenge the idea that he's not a member of the trans community, because that's what makes someone a bigot or "TERF". And women have lost their jobs for being accused of these things, others threatened with job loss. This means if you're the shop assistant attending the changing rooms, you actually can't easily even ask if Dodgy Bob is a man as he swaggers into the changing rooms, without being "transphobic" (because you're challenging the very idea of his existence).

Then some HQs decided to simply avoid that problem by making all changing rooms unisex. So now Dodgy Bob doesn't need to even run a minimal risk of inconvenience of being questioned on his "identity", he just goes into the unisex changing rooms and does what he wants..until he's discovered spying on you.

Is Dodgy Bob trans? Well that's another toughie. As long as the trans rights movement (and it's questionable that they're actually working on behalf of trans people..) says that being trans is confirmed the moment you say you're trans (self-ID), and cannot be questioned, rather than any official process to obtain official recognition, yes, he is. We simply can't know whether he's a dodgy bloke taking advantage of the newer laxer rules, or he's a trans person who is dodgy. As long as he can speak, he can say the words "I'm a woman" just like a trans woman can. And nobody can question that.

But discussing whether Dodgy Bob is trans or not is irrelevant. The point is that women should be able to try clothes on a shop knowing that the shop isn't setting her up as an easy target to Dodgy Bobs. And the reason that it involves the word trans here at all is because the movement to allow unquestioned self-ID in social practice is what has brought about the situation where the only way to protect women from Dodgy Bobs is to wait until they've struck and been caught.

Is it good this guy was caught? Absolutely. But why did a woman have to be harmed in the first place? And as we know with Wed offenders, it's rare they're caught on their first offence. So how many other women had this guy - or Dodgy Bob - spied on before being caught?

This is it in a nutshell. There are complexities in every aspects of this. The bottom line, however, is that instead of trying to prevent Dodgy Bobs from abusing women’s bodies, the social system says Dodgy Bobs don't exist and if they do they'll be caught. Meaning prevention - safe guarding - has gone out the window.

Women do not benefit from this.
Many trans people do not benefit from this.
But Dodgy Bob is pretty fucking happy. Cos he also knows he's unlikely to get caught and if he is, it'll likely be a slap on the wrist (a whole other issue..).

Foilball · 03/04/2022 07:30

@MaryTheWitch

And yes, you're right - Met officers ARE a threat to women's safety. And now they have free reign in our previously segregated spaces.
Thanks for your replies. Yes, I can why erosion of separate spaces can be worrying. I think unisex changing spaces should have lockable doors rather than curtains

But, from my perspective, some met officers (an alarmingly high proportion of them in my opinion) have been found raping, murdering, preying on, harassing women and children. And these people are in positions of power and are meant to be protecting us.

Again, the officer in question is not a trans woman, did not say he was trans in order to get access to the space. Not everything men do can be blamed on trans women

Kenwouldmixitup · 03/04/2022 07:31

@thenightsky * I'm thinking I might be more comfortable in the biological males' changing room. More likely to not be pervs.*

Simple as.

Kenwouldmixitup · 03/04/2022 07:35

@aweegc * Meaning prevention - safe guarding - has gone out the window. *

In a nut shell, yes.

FiveForAPound · 03/04/2022 08:08

Primark don't have specific changing rooms.

I know this as I went in the mens recently specifically to annoy my teenager daughters who think I don't know what I'm talking about with regards to pretty much anything.

Funnily enough they didn't come with me and went to the one in the women's department.

Ainsiseragroignequigroign · 03/04/2022 08:25

@aweegc

The issue with trans women in this scenario is this: who is a trans woman? And it's not hate to understand what we're talking about (tip: issue might not be trans people, read on).

In order for a man to be a trans woman re accessing Women’s changing rooms, all he has to do is say "I'm a woman". He does not need to wear any specific clothes, does not have to have gender dysphoria, does not have to have had surgery or be taking hormones, does not have to have shaved his beard. He can look like my dad or your brother or Dodgy Bob at the pub. His words are what is important here.

Only not even that. Nobody can challenge the idea that he's not a member of the trans community, because that's what makes someone a bigot or "TERF". And women have lost their jobs for being accused of these things, others threatened with job loss. This means if you're the shop assistant attending the changing rooms, you actually can't easily even ask if Dodgy Bob is a man as he swaggers into the changing rooms, without being "transphobic" (because you're challenging the very idea of his existence).

Then some HQs decided to simply avoid that problem by making all changing rooms unisex. So now Dodgy Bob doesn't need to even run a minimal risk of inconvenience of being questioned on his "identity", he just goes into the unisex changing rooms and does what he wants..until he's discovered spying on you.

Is Dodgy Bob trans? Well that's another toughie. As long as the trans rights movement (and it's questionable that they're actually working on behalf of trans people..) says that being trans is confirmed the moment you say you're trans (self-ID), and cannot be questioned, rather than any official process to obtain official recognition, yes, he is. We simply can't know whether he's a dodgy bloke taking advantage of the newer laxer rules, or he's a trans person who is dodgy. As long as he can speak, he can say the words "I'm a woman" just like a trans woman can. And nobody can question that.

But discussing whether Dodgy Bob is trans or not is irrelevant. The point is that women should be able to try clothes on a shop knowing that the shop isn't setting her up as an easy target to Dodgy Bobs. And the reason that it involves the word trans here at all is because the movement to allow unquestioned self-ID in social practice is what has brought about the situation where the only way to protect women from Dodgy Bobs is to wait until they've struck and been caught.

Is it good this guy was caught? Absolutely. But why did a woman have to be harmed in the first place? And as we know with Wed offenders, it's rare they're caught on their first offence. So how many other women had this guy - or Dodgy Bob - spied on before being caught?

This is it in a nutshell. There are complexities in every aspects of this. The bottom line, however, is that instead of trying to prevent Dodgy Bobs from abusing women’s bodies, the social system says Dodgy Bobs don't exist and if they do they'll be caught. Meaning prevention - safe guarding - has gone out the window.

Women do not benefit from this.
Many trans people do not benefit from this.
But Dodgy Bob is pretty fucking happy. Cos he also knows he's unlikely to get caught and if he is, it'll likely be a slap on the wrist (a whole other issue..).

did not say he was trans in order to get access to the space

He doesn't have to say he is trans to get into the space.
Plenty of trans people, more than Met police, have been caught doing similar.

Would you like a list?
How many trans people who have commited assaulted, raped and commited acts of child abuse is enough for you to consider the damage to women?

Ainsiseragroignequigroign · 03/04/2022 08:26

By trans people by the way I mean the male.variety. examples of female bodied crime remain in line with the rest of their biological sex. Funny that.

JellySaurus · 03/04/2022 08:44

Again, the officer in question is not a trans woman, did not say he was trans in order to get access to the space. Not everything men do can be blamed on trans women

We are not blaming anything on transwomen.

It is the trans ideology that is eroding women's single-sex spaces. It is organisations pandering to the trans ideologues that results in them destroying the safeguarding practices that are there for a very good reason, which is nothing to do with gender identity.

Maternitynamechange · 03/04/2022 08:48

Totally missing the point but thank god they followed up on this given his other crimes.

FrancescaContini · 03/04/2022 08:50

Ah, the Met. Bastion of male entitlement and misogyny Angry

DdraigGoch · 03/04/2022 08:55

@Foilball

I genuinely don't understand why commenters are linking this to trans women. The person who took the photos is male, identifies as male. Is it because the changing rooms are unisex?

It seems to me that like met police officers are more of a threat to the safety of women

What's the difference between a "transwoman" and a "male who identifies as male"?

De facto self-ID has opened the doors for any pervert to say "I am a woman" and stroll right into private spaces without challenge.

LadyMacduff · 03/04/2022 08:59

@JellySaurus

Again, the officer in question is not a trans woman, did not say he was trans in order to get access to the space. Not everything men do can be blamed on trans women

We are not blaming anything on transwomen.

It is the trans ideology that is eroding women's single-sex spaces. It is organisations pandering to the trans ideologues that results in them destroying the safeguarding practices that are there for a very good reason, which is nothing to do with gender identity.

Absolutely this. This is why nobody had a problem with this 10-15 years ago.

It is the potential for misuse of well meaning but misguided Self ID by predatory men that is wrong, and causes a lot of cognitive dissonance alongside the Me Too movement.

People declaring both 'This never happens' and 'This always happens'. At the same time.

DdraigGoch · 03/04/2022 09:01

Thanks for your replies. Yes, I can why erosion of separate spaces can be worrying. I think unisex changing spaces should have lockable doors rather than curtains

...

Again, the officer in question is not a trans woman, did not say he was trans in order to get access to the space. Not everything men do can be blamed on trans women

@Foilball why has there been such a proliferation of "unisex" changing rooms in recent years?

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