Sexual assault was commonplace in 90's?

[L0stinCyberspace]

Just pondering the (seeming) change in attitudes for young women in their 20's, now vs. the 90s, it hit me just how very normalised sexual assault, assault and sexual harassment was back then.

Walking down the street I'd be heckled from cars, building sites, buses. It all became normal and expected (dreaded).

A lad threw a full sandwich in tinfoil at my face with force from an upstairs bus window while shouting at me, a 12 year old threw ball-bearings at me when I was cycling down the road, a man punched me full force in the chest when I cycled by him one morning. A group of 10 trainee doctors told me to strip when I was in hospital, pulled the blinds and measured my breasts, while giggling, and I was too scared to complain. A man put his hand under me before I sat down on a packed bus one day, men groped and grabbed me when I was at gigs and clubs even when with boyfriends or friends, sleazy bosses tried it on, men tried to push clear boundaries. A man tried to break into my flat when I lived alone and I was advised to move immediately by police as they knew him.

Have things improved for young women now?

I know they have for me but that's my age to a great extent. Last year I was very upset to be heckled in a sexually abusive manner by 4 young men in a car as I walked with my teen in the daytime, but that was an unusual occurance. I really hope awareness is better now and there are less assaults. Are there?

2002- it was discovered the PE teacher was in a relationship with a Sixth former.
He was asked to resign at the end of the year. He was allowed to keep teaching her.

It was rumoured it had started during her GCSE years, but it was all swept under the carpet.

I had a 'friend' at high school, a girl, who told all the boys my bra size in year 9. I was subsequently referred to as 'Double D girl' for the rest of my time at school.
Groping in clubs very common. I never got wolfwhistled and I thought that I was ugly because my friends had stories of that! How sad that as a teenager I was convinced I was the ugly one for not getting whistled at by pervs!
I do remember waiting for a lift after swimming at about 14, but a very young looking 14, and a van with 2 adult men drove past and shouted 'ugly' & 'slags' at us. They drove past a few times purposely to do this, and made great effort to do as it was on a ring road.

I think it's changed in a lot of ways but not necessarily better.

Heckling and cat-calling is just replaced with other stuff isn't it.

We didn't have to deal with all the awful online shit young people do now.

Teens having relationships with much older men felt so common then and not so much now I guess.

In terms of gigs and clubs, I do think it was different on the indie/alternative scene. I experienced far less harassment and groping etc when I was in the local indie clubs than the more mainstream venues. I don't know that it was necessarily more respectful and there was still plenty of shifty behaviour but it felt less common.
Not sure why though. More there for the music/dancing maybe?
More awkward lads who didn't approach girls in the same way? Who knows.

Also, I don't ever remember having conversations about consent. Maybe they did happen in PSHE but I really don't recall them and don't remember really knowing it was ok to say no to a boy.

Getting your arse touched walking across a bar was so normal, it was odd if it didn’t happen. I genuinely didn’t mind, and am ashamed to say that it did make me feel attractive. I daresay that if I had challenged any of these men, I would have faced verbal abuse, or worse. Some of the stories above are just sickening, I remember having my arse touched by a bouncer in order to be let in underage. Absolutely no way any of us would have told our parents about this, it would have been mortifying.
In terms of catcalling, my experience was that if you were seen as good looking, it was all good humoured unless you challenged it, and then you were given abuse. If you were seen as not good looking, you were the butt of their jokes. Horrible. Couldn’t win really, there was absolutely no respect.

I recognise your experiences too. Lots of being touched up unwittingly in the nightclubs of the 90's IME. I would never have told my parents, but it was so common I never gave it much thought tbh.

I fully identify with you experience, it was mine in the mid nineties, early 2000s. So much groping, touching, staring, disgusting comments and fear. Feeling preyed upon. I have such a dim view of men as a result that I try to counter. But in my work I come across so much harassment of women too. For me now it also is rare thankfully due to age but I’d be interested to hear young womens’ experiences, I sadly doubt the issue has really changed that much, maybe just how it is done.

I think the current trans inclusion policies, while aiming to be supportive of trans people, an aim that is important, put young women at risk. This is the new way predatory men will exploit what is normalised in order to abuse. It’s happening and no one is allowed to say it without being called a bigot. This feels like a new way women and girls will be told to by society ignore their instincts, they will likely feel shame admitting what their instinct says due to the current discourse, and this puts them at risk.

I recognise your experiences too. It was continuous really. Most of it I didn't recognise for what it was at the time.

I can't be bothered to list it all but it started at school, carried on at work, and was completely normal on a night out ime.

And no way would I have told my mum, after all, she was there herself, on family holidays, laughing along, when I was a teenager, and my male relatives would be trying to get me to go topless on the beach like the rest of the females. Mortifying.

@Kite22

I am very sorry you went through those experiences, but I don't recognise that as a description of my life in the 90s (or 80s)

Me neither. Apart from the wolf-whistles. I was really pretty as well.

I did have a drink spiked, but I suspect accidentally as I was in a gay club at the time.

Oh and someone started standing too close to me at work and I just told him that he was standing too close....

Just watch an episode of”Are you Being Served?” which is running at the moment.
Tells you everything you need to know, but much-loved seemingly!

Bloody hell OP that sounds horrendous. I was a teenager in the 90s and only really experienced the wolf whistles and odd beep from cars, (actually quite liked that although I know I'll be slated for saying that) nothing like what you experienced.
Mind you in the 90s I didn't take shit off anyone so perhaps that's why.
So from my perspective things are actually worse now. I have teenage DDs and I know they have friends who have been followed, my niece was sexually assaulted by her ex. Even teachers still make sexist remarks about the students. Luckily not experienced anything like what others have and we live in a city but I do worry more now they're getting older and more independent.

My experience is the same OP. Was totally the norm to be groped, cat called, flashed at, grabbed and kissed. Happened everywhere - in the street, in clubs (I remember one horrendous club called the Roadhouse in Leicester Square where we left as it was basically a free for all for the men) and in school. In school it was terrible and terrifying and teachers did not give a shit. I know it sounds ridiculous but it was so normalised that when 'me too' happened I didn't even realise that some of the things they spoke about were assault.

How are you women brave enought to be in a relationship with men?

Genuinely asking.

I was bullied by boys/men, I was ugly I guess, so I just name calling mostly.

The pretty girl got the (from my perspective) positive attention (for a while at least) and this just left me the view of the males that all they want is looks.
So even now in my late 30’s I don’t trust them.

How are you women who have been through all that still trust or love any of them?

I’m not being rude, just can’t comprehend that….

I think 'lad culture' and magazines such as Loaded (there were others cannot remember their names) helped normalise a certain kind of behaviour.

This all happened to me when I was a teen in the late 90s/early 00s. Had a boy sexually assault me at school and it was written off as ‘just teenage boy behaviour’. Being heckled as I walked home from school by men driving past. Groping in clubs was extremely commonplace into my twenties in the late 00s, then being told I must be a lesbian if I told them to fuck off, as was men shouting things on the bus, following me home. It’s only really stopped as I’ve got older and stopped going to clubs and usually have a child with me when I’m out and about during the day. So in my experience by the late 00s it had not improved but I really hope it is better for young women today.

In school we had a girl that thought it was “funny” to grope the other girls. Due to section 28, school wouldn’t address it.

I had “creepy uncle”, not a real uncle but a neighbour that would make stupid comments to me. He would be paid to take my grandmother, great grandmother and myself and luggage on holiday, while my mother and father would take the train. As soon as I got breasts the comments changed. I was told to be flattered, his wife would laugh at the comments, he would touch me and his wife would laugh at it. I would feel very unsafe. I had meltdowns before the holiday. I really didn’t want to go. In the end I was allowed to go with my parents on the train. It was made clear I was an inconvenience. The journey was cheaper because unaccompanied them (family rail card). This may have swayed them.

Every thing was supposed to be taken as a compliment. Even the creepy stuff. It still happens now with boys commenting “ohh you’re so rapable” on woman’s social media comments as a compliment.

It has got better.

I think the type of harassment has changed. Yes, as a 90s teenager i got groped, wolf whistled, flashed, chatted up by old boss, etc. I dont think these things happen as much anymore

However, the rise of the interent has changed the kind of harrasment. Unsolicited dick picks, the 'pornification' of women - men are more likely to spit on women during sex, strangle during sex, expect anal, etc.

Building sites could be awful. I used to go clubbing a LOT and incidents would happen all the time (groping, flashing etc). I hope it’s not like that now

I don’t personally think it was much different then. Groping in clubs then but I don’t go to clubs now so can’t compare. Just last week I was heckled at from a car window by two grown men (I was embarrassed for them in a ‘did you not get the memo?’ kind of way).

Definitely had same kind of experiences OP.
And sickeningly my DDs have had horrible experiences too over the years.
They're both in their early 20s so nothing's changed.
Perhaps the only difference is that DDs recognise these things as wrong and also have the vocabulary to describe this.
I didn't even know the terms "sexual harassment " or "sexual assault ".
Never occurred to me to complain.
Really pisses me off with PP trotting out the old victim-blaming lines eg never happened to me, but then I didn't take any crap etc etc,
There's always one.
I was a courageous, articulate young girl/woman too.
I wasn't a demure handmaiden
And neither was anyone else on here I imagine.
Freezing is a common response when feeling in danger in the hope of not provoking anything worse.
It's not a sign of weakness.

Some of those incidents sound extreme OP. I would expect maybe a few of those to have happened (often repeatedly in the case of verbal harassment, groping for example) to many women, but you have definitely been very unfortunate. What absolutely horrible experiences

I'm in my fifties now, but can remember verbal abuse of a sexual nature, unwanted touching, wolf whistles etc back in the eighties/nineties. I remember when I objected to a man at work putting his arm around my waist, there was a general consensus among the other men that I did not like to be touched (eh?), so obviously they had been talking about me being standoffish, frigid and whatever other lovely descriptions were used for women who dared not to feel grateful for the attention. I also had comments about my body shape, my hair, my clothes, my general demeanour. This was in an office environment of mainly men. I don't know how the few other women in the office felt because we never discussed it, probably because it was all so familiar and normalised.

I’m afraid I don’t think it’s improved at all. I used to but chatting with my teenage dd, it really hasn’t. Dd2 has had comments made to her since year 6 (aged 11) whilst in school uniform. I only found this out recently and she just shrugged and says it happens to everyone.

Meanwhile dd1 has had at least 3 friends raped by boys that were their friends in the last couple of years.

I don’t get anything happen to me anymore but that’s because I’m 50 and invisible but I’m so angry that nothing has changed for my dds

I recognise a lot from the OP’s description. It also wasn’t uncommon for teachers to have relationships with pupils, there was a few at my high school. Or teachers appearing at parties. Grim.

But I don’t think it’s better now, I think it’s a lot more violent. Choking is normalised, as is anal, porn is a lot more available and it’s become socially acceptable. I’d hate to be a teenager now.

@WellThisWentWell

How are you women brave enought to be in a relationship with men?

Genuinely asking.

I was bullied by boys/men, I was ugly I guess, so I just name calling mostly.

The pretty girl got the (from my perspective) positive attention (for a while at least) and this just left me the view of the males that all they want is looks.
So even now in my late 30’s I don’t trust them.

How are you women who have been through all that still trust or love any of them?

I’m not being rude, just can’t comprehend that….

Obviously not every single man on earth is like that. The last two men I have been in a relationship would never do any of the things mentioned on here. You just have to weed out the bad ones I suppose.

That sounds awful but I have to say I didn't experience any of that in the '90s. I think someone once grabbed my bum in a club and I slapped him. But I don't think it was that commonplace or worse then than now - maybe just different, now
online harassment makes things worse, and I think incites a certain type of men to do stuff.