To be a bit pissed off about colleagues' lack of enthusiasm to return to the office?

[spuddy56]

About 6 months ago I joined a large organisation in a fairly large team (15 ish). Since covid the company have introduced flexible working. Whether or not you go in is down to individual people and their managers. Barely any of this team ever go into the office, particularly those who worked there pre covid, although there is a newer bunch tend to go in once a week and seem to be developing really positive working and social relationships out of it. My particular role doesn't overlap theirs at all but does overlap the with the more longstanding members who are refusing to go in. Although I get on well with everyone as far as I know (but who really knows from behind a screen!), I'm also aware that they are having social meet ups without me and it just feels so hard to get a grasp on the culture and the ins and outs of working with particular people. We currently have a high turnover too, and I wonder if people feel less loyalty because they are not forming face to face relationships? The managers want to encourage creativity and collaboration but this seems to difficult to me when there's no casual conversations and bouncing around of ideas outside of zoom and emails.

Am I being unreasonable to think that people should head in to the office occasionally or do we just need to get used to this?

P.s. I actually love working from home and the flexibility, I just think some face to face collaboration would be helpful too.

Personally for me I don't socialise with colleagues outside of work, they're my work colleagues not my friends.

To go into an office to spend a day on zoom meetings to me seems pointless, the collaboration side is no different to me being at home and with global workforces now, this won't change. So there will never be the whole team in one room together.

YANBU. I've been working partly from home for years prior to covid, but would usually go into the office 1-2 days a week for the reasons you mention. Nowadays most of my direct collaborators are based in other cities but i still feel it's valuable to spend a few days a week in the office, not least in order to help newer/younger colleagues feel more connected and supported.

Sorry I have no plans to go and work in the office, where like another person said only to spend it all in teams meetings anyway and the floor is virtually empty may as well stay at home. I am happy working from home I get more work done and like I can sit in the garden to have a cuppa and my lunch. It saves me loads in fuel. If I need to speak to a colleague or need help they are only a video call away . I only meet up with work colleagues in meetings and weekly teams fun chat session and when we arrange a team meet up every other week for cake etc.

Yanbu, completely remote working is terrible for new starters and junior colleagues.

@Apple40

Sorry I have no plans to go and work in the office, where like another person said only to spend it all in teams meetings anyway and the floor is virtually empty may as well stay at home. I am happy working from home I get more work done and like I can sit in the garden to have a cuppa and my lunch. It saves me loads in fuel. If I need to speak to a colleague or need help they are only a video call away . I only meet up with work colleagues in meetings and weekly teams fun chat session and when we arrange a team meet up every other week for cake etc.

@apple40 when you say meetings and cake meet ups are those in person? I think that sounds like a great solution if so. We have nothing in person at all so its very hard to get to know the team. I lie, I've had one team meeting in the whole 6 months that was in person.

I think if you are a long-standing employee than on an individual level WFH is a massive winner for a lot of tasks and it cuts a lot of time wasted, but if you are newer and still learning it can make it harder to move into the team and learn the ins and outs and nuanced bits of the job so it’s a hard balance. Hybrid is probably a good balance so WFH a few days a week to get more admin type tasks done and coming together for more collaborative work, but it does rely on everyone in the group that needs to work together coming in at the same time. Maybe now covid is less of a thing if your office and workers are based around a certain area then meet up locally to do project work that doesn’t have to be the office. Morning coffee break followed by an hours monthly/fortnightly project review in a local cafe or library?

As a long standing staff member whose has been there when the team was small, we have built relationships over time and all work remotely.Now our team is big I am no longer interested in being social with work colleagues.I am only friends with the longer term colleagues or rather some of them as we started off in the trenches together and were younger and more sociable then. Frankly, work is work and the idea of being forced to socialise with work people would make me look for another job.i have started more than 1 job completely remotely and had no issues so its not terrible for all new starters.

Yes, it's tricky. As a non new-starter or someone not l in need of any training, I have no desire to go into the office at all. But I do understand why it's good for younger staff members and new employees. Selfishly, though, it would reduce my quality of life and I'm not really keen to make that sacrifice for myself and my family for the sake of other people. I'm sure that will shock and appall but it's just how I feel!

@Dazedandconfused10

Personally for me I don't socialise with colleagues outside of work, they're my work colleagues not my friends.

To go into an office to spend a day on zoom meetings to me seems pointless, the collaboration side is no different to me being at home and with global workforces now, this won't change. So there will never be the whole team in one room together.

This.

And we manage to work remotely and collaborate perfectly. We have even received industry prizes for collaborative project work done remotely.

@ spuddy56 yes the cake and tea meet ups are in person. We usually take few hours out to meet up. Meetings are usually on teams but just had a training day in person at the office.

@Hugasauras

Yes, it's tricky. As a non new-starter or someone not l in need of any training, I have no desire to go into the office at all. But I do understand why it's good for younger staff members and new employees. Selfishly, though, it would reduce my quality of life and I'm not really keen to make that sacrifice for myself and my family for the sake of other people. I'm sure that will shock and appall but it's just how I feel!

This is exactly how I feel too. Once a week, or better, every two weeks f2f meetings + coffee or lunch with colleagues is more than enough to "bond". I'm less productive in the office and feels like a waste of time really.

I don't even see it as being social...I would just love more in office time working together, talking about work, bouncing around problems, hearing informally about the best way to deal with certain situations etc. I don't care if I know what a colleague had for dinner or about their favourite hobby but I would like to know how they've worked effectively previously. I suppose things like small tips on meeting a particular senior stakeholder for the first time or shortcuts in the systems etc.

YANBU, I can't stand this mentality that "only micromanaging bosses are forcing us to go back, everyone loves WFH!". Some people may love it but it's 100% not for me.

Zoom/Teams makes everything into a specific transaction related to a specific task. I recently joined a new team which is 2-3 days WFO, and just little things like having coffee with them and hearing them complain about minor annoyances (in a sweet/fun way not a mean way), gives you a window into the team culture and helps you integrate better and contribute more to the team. Nothing about micromanaging at all.

Assuming quitting and going to work for a more reasonable company isn't an option... Could you suggest a team day where multiple people go in to the office, or try to?

@texasschmexas to be fair I'd love to f2f meetings even once a month. We've got nothing at the moment in my part of the team.

You sound like you're writing an article or canvassing public opinion for something...

Why not look for a new job if you're not happy with the way things are, when everyone else is?

@spuddy56

I don't even see it as being social...I would just love more in office time working together, talking about work, bouncing around problems, hearing informally about the best way to deal with certain situations etc. I don't care if I know what a colleague had for dinner or about their favourite hobby but I would like to know how they've worked effectively previously. I suppose things like small tips on meeting a particular senior stakeholder for the first time or shortcuts in the systems etc.

Totally this OP. We've had enough blurring of home/work boundaries over the past 2 years, so I'm not seeking to force that.

But when it comes to new starters, starting new projects /forming new teams, workshops, etc, i don't see how we can get the same results entirely remotely.

Would be really interested in how those of you who are resolutely WFH are managing these things.

I could have written this, it’s so much harder to make friends, I started a new job a couple months into covid. I left a team where we were all so close, I felt so lonely at the start I’ve got more used to it.

I think if you don’t mind working in the office you should go in when you want and if you like working from home you should be able to when you want as well but I don’t think Ken or the other should be forced into doing anything as long as it is not impacting the output of the work, if it is then clearly amendments need to be made

I think it just sounds like the culture of your company doesn’t suit you. In the same way that if a company wanted people in the office, and someone wanted to wfh, it wouldn’t be the best job for them.

Yabvvvu. How needy are you. JC.

This talk about inefficiency of not meeting in person is just an excuse for people who don't like working remotely. We have chat, zoom, emails and telephone. We ask questions on tips etc In team chat. We zoom 3x week for team catches where ideas are shared and problems discussed this is more efficient, we don't waste time on frivolous matters, Someone can't just come to your desk when you are busy to ask a question that could wait. If someone asks me something in chat I can say ill get back to them. Last year a new team member decided we should all meet for a project and half of the team met in person and the rest zoomed. Not nearly enough was done and it won't be repeated... was certainly not better than zooming.The in person meeting might have been fun for those who like socialising but only a quarter amount of work was done in that day than on usual project work days.

Yabvvvu. How needy are you. JC.

And how rude are you.

Many people's MH has been adversely affected by the isolation of WFH. Nobody seems to give a crap about them.

It's really tricky. I onboarded a junior team member during lockdown - it was all done entirely remotely, she didn't come into the office and see anyone f2f until she'd been in the team about six months. It felt totally unfair on her and was so much harder for her to pick up nuances, tricky bits of tech, personalities etc. She was a champ about it but it was so much harder than learning in an office with someone next to you who you could just say 'eh what?' to.

On the other hand I'm an introvert and I completely loathe open plan offices. Can't work if people are chatting, playing music or chewing 😂.

I seriously think they need to bring back individual offices if they want us oldies to go back f/t. I'll never work f/t in an office again unless I've absolutely no other option.

I think YANBU definitely.
But then I work in a hospital ward.. we're a team & you can't wfh in my job haha!!

One of my friends wfh since the start of covid & she's motivated as she hates the office environment, but I think it's been bad for her as she lives alone & I've seen her get more & more hermit like & anxious as the years have gone by...

Of course not everyone is like that because they have partners & children at home but how can anyone work effectively with them around?