To be a bit pissed off about colleagues' lack of enthusiasm to return to the office?

[spuddy56]

About 6 months ago I joined a large organisation in a fairly large team (15 ish). Since covid the company have introduced flexible working. Whether or not you go in is down to individual people and their managers. Barely any of this team ever go into the office, particularly those who worked there pre covid, although there is a newer bunch tend to go in once a week and seem to be developing really positive working and social relationships out of it. My particular role doesn't overlap theirs at all but does overlap the with the more longstanding members who are refusing to go in. Although I get on well with everyone as far as I know (but who really knows from behind a screen!), I'm also aware that they are having social meet ups without me and it just feels so hard to get a grasp on the culture and the ins and outs of working with particular people. We currently have a high turnover too, and I wonder if people feel less loyalty because they are not forming face to face relationships? The managers want to encourage creativity and collaboration but this seems to difficult to me when there's no casual conversations and bouncing around of ideas outside of zoom and emails.

Am I being unreasonable to think that people should head in to the office occasionally or do we just need to get used to this?

P.s. I actually love working from home and the flexibility, I just think some face to face collaboration would be helpful too.

Some peoples mental health has been affected by office work for years, some people have social anxiety, are extreme introverts, hate office politics, workplace bullies, forced socialising. mental health is not just the domaine of one set of people. It is to the benefit of lots of people that there are now more different work environments to suit different people. If you don't like remote work simply look for an office based job dont complain that WFH is better for you and you are pissd off, like OP did that they won't come into the office, You cannot then be surprised if some people are then rude back.

@Beatrix90

I think if you don’t mind working in the office you should go in when you want and if you like working from home you should be able to when you want as well but I don’t think Ken or the other should be forced into doing anything as long as it is not impacting the output of the work, if it is then clearly amendments need to be made

I agree with this. Absolutely all of our work can be done online. There's been zero decline in quality or quantity of work done.

I actually wondered if the OP was a new person in my team. We are team of about 20, and about 3-4 people feel very strongly that we should go in sometimes, they miss f2f meetings and chatting.

The rest of the team (including me) are pretty introverted and have zero interest in going back.

I'm happy to make 2 minutes of polite chat in meetings, but I never really socialised at oak, and im not looking to make friends with colleagues.

To me going into the office was just an extra 2 hours a day commuting, spending ££ on petrol, and struggling to concentrate on complicated work in a noisy environment. I don't want to go back to having to get up at 6am, sit on a dual carriageway in busy traffic spending shitloads on petrol.

Incidentally those that are keen on going back to the office are those who live in walking distance of the office and always wanted to go to after work drinks.

It's less enticing for those of us that have to get up early to sit in traffic, then need to rush home after work to other commitments.

Really interesting answers, thanks everyone. I like some of the ideas from people who work fully remotely but still have set time to share ideas over zoom. We don't have that but it could be great for newbies like me. I suppose the management of the remote environment is important too. I completely agree that coming into a half full office to all sit on zoom all day anyway is no good for anyone.

For what it's worth, I do on the whole love my job, I've won awards for work I've done, passed probation early and flew through my early objectives. My role has been expanded to take on more responsibility and I absolutely love the work I do and impact I make on people's lives. I'm just a little bit sad/frustrated with struggling with this particular aspect and feel like I could be achieving much more with more opportunities to learn from colleagues. And I'll admit I do quite like people and it's one of the reasons I work in the industry I'm in...

We’ve started planning an informal chat meeting - about work but with no defined agenda.

An hour and half every other week just to talk about what we’re all up to - not in a check up sort of way but a I’m doing X and I think I need input from Y and then someone will jump in with I was on meeting Z where X was raised so maybe talk to them as well.

It’s completely free form but works well - I was a bit reluctant at first as I couldn’t see what was different to team hubs and project catch ups but it’s definitely been helpful.

I started a new role recently that is 100% remote, never have to go into the office and it won’t even be possible as the office is hours away.

This suits me fine. I am so much more productive and I get on very well with my manager and team.

In my last role it was hybrid working and while being in the office was fine there was so many covid protocols to follow to just to get to work and do your job.

It really depends on the contract of the employee and what type of working agreements they have. You don’t even know their circumstances as to whether coming to the office is convenient for them? For me working from home is flexible and I can work this around my baby.

Every company is different though. One of my managers is in Florida and other team members are in other parts of U.K. So for us it wouldn’t even be a thought to suggest office days.

I’ve never really bounced ideas off other people, it’s always just been me getting on with something. I have a colleague doing the same job in a different region and we have meetings to discuss budget or other high level things but that’s about it. I also live 40 mins away from the office so I’ve never been too interested in after work drinks because it’s just too much of a faff to get home. I don’t miss socialising with my colleagues because I’ve rarely done it, in any of my jobs over 10 years. I definitely don’t miss hearing my colleagues complain about systems and processes. I noticed that working from home I enjoyed my job a lot more because I wasn’t surrounded by the negativity of other people.

My work want us back in 100% of the time and I’m looking for a new job. I don’t want to commute to have other peoples negativity affecting my mental health and my enjoyment of my job. I’d be fine with hybrid but work don’t see that method working.

I think if you are a long-standing employee than on an individual level WFH is a massive winner for a lot of tasks and it cuts a lot of time wasted, but if you are newer and still learning it can make it harder to move into the team and learn the ins and outs and nuanced bits of the job so it’s a hard balance.

I agree with this.
I also think it is job dependent to some extent.
It is definitely situation dependent - as in, how much space you have to wfh vs commute, as well as whether you rely on colleagues for your human interaction.
I love wfh, but then I was doing it a lot before COVID, and my job also includes going out to visits so I am not always wfh.

I don't know what the answer is really. Except that there isn't a 'one size fits all' answer.

No, YANBU, and I think this is going to limit the life of work from home arrangements somewhat, because it will begin to make many workplaces less effective.

While there are some sectors where people not meeting up at all is fine, in a lot where it doesn't work as well. I think what they are going to find, and some are seeing this already, is that it may be ok for employees who have been around for a while to never come in, but it will make it very difficult for newer employees not to have mentors or people to ask questions of, and so on. Zoom or chats are not the same.

And as for socializing, is can be very problematic when cliques form or some people are being left out. It can affect morale in some cases, but also how the workplace functions, and not in a good way. In some sectors a certain amount of socializing also relates to work, so there's that too.

It's kind of too bad, really, because some of the people who won't come in may end up ruining the flexibility for everyone.

Oh no. Creativity. Collaboration. Bouncing around of ideas. How does an idea bounce around? Do they bounce off other people?

Thank all the jesuses that this is why I am so glad to be working from home. Ain’t nobody bouncing nothing off me or my colleagues, thank fuck for that.

I kind of get that - I am going in once a week but it's a shame my teammates aren't, although I understand why. Three, including manager, are quite far out of London (2 in Midlands, one on South coast), of the other two, one is on autism spectrum and quite anxious, so I understand it's hard for him. The other I strongly suspect is on the spectrum but undiagnosed and very introverted and is clearly very happy to be at home. Manager is talking about trying to fix a monthly date after Easter. I am looking to move jobs and one reason is I'd like to actually be in an office with a team, or at least a close colleague or two, more often!

We took on so many people during lockdown, I often don't know the people who are in at the same time as me or what they do.

@Hugasauras

Yes, it's tricky. As a non new-starter or someone not l in need of any training, I have no desire to go into the office at all. But I do understand why it's good for younger staff members and new employees. Selfishly, though, it would reduce my quality of life and I'm not really keen to make that sacrifice for myself and my family for the sake of other people. I'm sure that will shock and appall but it's just how I feel!

Surely though your employer has an interest in developing new employees to their best?

And as for socializing, is can be very problematic when cliques form or some people are being left out. It can affect morale in some cases, but also how the workplace functions, and not in a good way

But surely that happened when people were in the office. Indeed, I would have thought it would have been more apparent if some people are heading out without others, when everyone is in the same place, rather then people working at their own homes not being aware if smaller groups go out.

Mind, I never understand the emotive way people talk about "cliques". To my mind, it is perfectly natural that some smaller parts of any group form friendships - be that at work, or when part of a sports team or a choir or when you used to be at school - the whole class didn't go out, everyone had their own friendship groups. It is just normal. I know that some of my colleagues sometime meet for a drink or a night out (different small groups). There is no obligation whatsoever for small groups of friends to invite all colleagues to every social thing they do. Be really weird to do so.

In some sectors a certain amount of socializing also relates to work, so there's that too
In which case, surely it is still happening ?

@Kite22

And as for socializing, is can be very problematic when cliques form or some people are being left out. It can affect morale in some cases, but also how the workplace functions, and not in a good way

But surely that happened when people were in the office. Indeed, I would have thought it would have been more apparent if some people are heading out without others, when everyone is in the same place, rather then people working at their own homes not being aware if smaller groups go out.

Mind, I never understand the emotive way people talk about "cliques". To my mind, it is perfectly natural that some smaller parts of any group form friendships - be that at work, or when part of a sports team or a choir or when you used to be at school - the whole class didn't go out, everyone had their own friendship groups. It is just normal. I know that some of my colleagues sometime meet for a drink or a night out (different small groups). There is no obligation whatsoever for small groups of friends to invite all colleagues to every social thing they do. Be really weird to do so.

In some sectors a certain amount of socializing also relates to work, so there's that too
In which case, surely it is still happening ?

Cliques can form in an office, sure, but in this case it sounds like the fact that there is a group of people who already know each other and work at home, som ein the office who are new, the OP who is in the office but does something different, is leading to this situation.

And yes, there can naturally be friendships that form at work that won;t include everyone, but it is not a good situation when you get people being excluded in a way that becomes obvious, and it's not all that uncommon. It should be something that's managed when it happens but that is more difficult when there isn't any hands on leadership.

I'm not sure why you think that when most people wfh there will also be work related socializing.

I'm not sure why you think that when most people wfh there will also be work related socializing.

Well, I've never worked in a job that relies on socialising to get the work done, but I presume those that do can still arrange to meet clients for lunch or socialise with others not conferences and exhibitions etc are all starting back up ? I was presuming that socialising takes place away from the office.

@QueenofDestruction

Some peoples mental health has been affected by office work for years, some people have social anxiety, are extreme introverts, hate office politics, workplace bullies, forced socialising. mental health is not just the domaine of one set of people. It is to the benefit of lots of people that there are now more different work environments to suit different people. If you don't like remote work simply look for an office based job dont complain that WFH is better for you and you are pissd off, like OP did that they won't come into the office, You cannot then be surprised if some people are then rude back.

Absolutely this!

You're taking this way too personally OP.

Don't over think it. You are paid to work, that means you're producing some kind of output which your manager is responsible for managing i.e. setting the expectations of what you're supposed to be doing and also helping resolve difficulties in doing it.

If you feel that your colleagues are not engaging with you, and that this is affecting your output, write down some specific examples, come up with some ideas to resolve and then book a meeting with your manager to seek their input.

Ultimately your colleagues don't exist to make your life more pleasant, it would be nice but that's not what they're paid to do! They also have output and they're going about it however they see fit. It's not personal.

It's field-specific. DH is in IT. His entire department is happy, productive and efficient at home. A bunch of socially awkward nerds, all working away feverishly. They'd be happy to never see each other again.

My field is people. We desperately need each other. Even at the height we chose to be in. Facemasks and shouting TBF but we need each other. Just today a client can in, my colleague was meeting with her, she mentioned work I'd done, the client was really happy, I introduced myself. Yes, she could have sent an email afterwards but there wouldn't have been the same effect.

As an aside, I've shagged had relationships with co-workers. It's a common way to meet partners and spouses. I do worry about young, new employees and whether WFH is healthy.

OP "We currently have a high turnover too, and I wonder if people feel less loyalty because they are not forming face to face relationships? "

Loyalty to whom? Work is work.

I've been mostly home based since 2016.

It sounds like you just want more of an old style office environment. My advice would be either don't upset the apple cart and just get on with work, or look for a job in a place they want people office based.

You mention some people have meetups without you. That's fair enough.

Having pre booked sessions to share ideas can result in long periods of quiet!

Even when I was in an office, most of the time the people I was working with were located hours away. Working in person was a rarity. The same was true for my husband. Most of his coworkers are in a different country.

“Bouncing ideas off each other” might be important in creative type roles, but in admin it usually means being interrupted by someone who can’t be arsed looking up the policy or procedure themselves. They’d rather interrupt me so I can put it into little words for them.

WFH has been fab in that regard as they’ll need to message me on teams or send an email and I can flick back the link without sounding rude. Otherwise I get drawn into a whole bloody conversation about something totally self explanatory, if they’d only read the instructions.

I've always worked for a national organisation so team members are all over the country. We're as thick as thieves. You don't have to meet in person to build good working and social relationships with people.

My tips: have individual and group online chats going all the time where you can witter away as if you were sitting together. Hi and bye each day and let them know when you're leaving your desk. Quick work questions, and just the general chatter about the weather, your weekend etc like you would in person. You quickly get to know people better and find shared interests.

Call people often, outside meetings, and make time for a bit of non-work chat.

Camera on, at least some of the time.

Have fun together. Once a week my little team gets together for a 5 minute activity to get us laughing, maybe a quiz/game, we've even done desk yoga and giggled away as people fell off their chairs contorting themselves. (It's on the Yoga with Adriene Youtube channel if you're keen )

Have virtual morning teas, farewell parties etc. Fundraisers, birthday gifts etc, can all continue to be done virtually if that's part of the culture.

I think long term its unhealthy for (the majority) of people to work from home. My partner has done it for 2 years now. Aside from driving me mad, as he's always at home droning on in meetings (office speak!!), he socializes much less and seems to be losing some of his connections. Its not healthy and I can see him getting lethargic and maybe slightly depressed. I'm sure that going back to the office even a day a week would be beneficial.

In my experience the people who seem to want things to go back to how they were are those individuals who were maybe a bit lonely and work was offering social contact that they weren't getting at home. Personally working from home suits me. Quick meetings, no wasted time. My friends are not work colleagues.

@spuddy56

I don't even see it as being social...I would just love more in office time working together, talking about work, bouncing around problems, hearing informally about the best way to deal with certain situations etc. I don't care if I know what a colleague had for dinner or about their favourite hobby but I would like to know how they've worked effectively previously. I suppose things like small tips on meeting a particular senior stakeholder for the first time or shortcuts in the systems etc.

I find this interesting. I started a new job six months ago, not doing something I’d specifically done before), completely remote working, team of 12. And I’ve definitely found I still have this. The bouncing ideas off each other type stuff. We’ve got a teams chat and a whatsapp chat. I’ll throw random questions out there and either they’ll all chip in and reply, or someone will send me something they’ve done, or give me a call. Or a mixture of the three. They all speak quite candidly too, so for example I’ve still been warned about some of the trickier stakeholders. So I’m guessing it depends entirely on the team in question.