to think it should be financially rewarding not to fly

[blameitonthecaffeine]

I know there's probably no way round it but it annoys me that not flying is so much more expensive than flying.

After 2 years of not going abroad, I felt too guilty about the environmental impact to jet off again this summer so we've booked a holiday in Greece and are going there via trains and ferries.

Per adult, (children cheaper obviously) it has cost me around £350 for the train tickets and £140 for the ferry. So total £490.

I had a look at flights and a cheaper end (but direct) flight, with add ons of hold luggage and booking the seats would have been about £175 per person.

I'm very fortunate that I can afford this choice but really, it's hardly surprising that flying is so popular is it?!

Is there a way of making other transport options cheaper do you think or is it just the way it has to be?

I'm not even sure trains are that much better than planes after all this faff, time and money! It's 48 hours of travelling instead of around 4 for a start! Although we can see interesting places on the way (and build up more costs with additional nights accommodation!)

Totally agree. Even for domestic trips it is often cheaper to fly than to take the train, which is completely wrong. And as we live in Scotland, if we go abroad I don't want to spend the first day of our holiday just getting to the south coast.

Those flights are very reasonably priced-when we’ve flown to Greece in July, it’s well over £1000 for 4 of us 😫

I’d like to do the train/ferry options as part of the holiday fun, but DH and kids prefer to maximum the pool/beach time 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m secretly plotting an extensive train-ferry-coach bucket-list trip For Myself, for when the kids are old enough to look after themselves 😈

Honestly don’t martyr yourself, we can all take steps to help the environment but I wouldn’t go to the lengths of massive logistical inconvenience, time and expense when it’s not going to have any direct effect on the environment.

AiryFairy - my kids are at private school so we're going near the start of July. I'm sure the flights suddenly skyrocket by mid July (whole separate issue, I know!)

Could everybody get leisure air miles coupons, enough say for one European holiday every two years (or every year or whatever) and then if you want more miles you have to buy them off other people? Then poorer people can cash in.

The climate assembly that involved about 100 or so random cirizens, a couple of years ago, was very much in favour of a frequent flyer levy which I like as it would allow the people who can't afford trains etc to enjoy the sun a bit while penalising the entitled 'annual long-haul-plus three-city-break' types, plus the employers (if any still do it) who rush their employees here there and everywhere

TempName - we honestly don't mind the additional time and inconvenience. There are lots of pros to overland/sea travel. I used to love it as a student (trans siberian express, buses across USA, inter railing in Europe etc). It just grates on me that, if it's supposedly so important for us to stop flying so much, that the alternatives are well over double the price. I don't know if you're right that it doesn't matter or not, tbh. One family not flying, I agree - won't make a difference. But if, as society, we could be helped to find other ways (online and train for business, other affordable methods for holidays including more holiday allowance to make up for the time lost in getting there) then surely it would make a difference?

How do you work out if trains and ferry are better for environment?

The thing that I've never seen is a proper comparison of various bits of transport acknowledging that it's not just as simple as saying airlines are worse per mile. For the trip I do regularly it's 449 miles flying but 900 miles to drive plus a ferry trip

For the next two years I have to admit that I’m not giving the environment a second thought when it comes to travel and holidays

They're out there if you Google inky. A large car with one occupant isn't much better than flying, although obviously it's several times better if there are several people in it. Trains ARE still the best though, and coaches are good. And cheap.

Did you get Interrail passes OP? If it's too late for you, I'll say it for everyone else's benefit: you can get 2 under- 12s passes FREE with every adult!! They also offer discounts on ferries, including Italy- Greece ones IIRC.

I need to travel from Glasgow to London on 28th April, returning 1st May.

I can fly return to Gatwick for £62.98. Add in £24 for the Gatwick train each way = £87.

The train return from Glasgow Central to London Euston on the same dates is £130.70.

I’m travelling for work next week.

My time has a value to my employer.

I’m flying.

I think flights should be heavily taxed to make them a less attractive option. I drive a diesel 4x4 and therefore I am paying through the nose for fuel and road tax. It grates that people can jet off on weekdays multiple times a year for next to nothing. I am a farmer, my choice of vehicle is not a leisure choice.

Totally agree. It’s far too convenient to fly, and generally a lot cheaper. We need to make it a luxury again.

Try taking a ferry to the Scottish islands - you could probs fly half way round the world for less!! Train not too bad if you can book well in advance. I agree with you though .

You are totally right. Extra taxes on air travel too.

You have done the right thing. Air travel is far worse. You can look your kids in the eye and say you’ve done your best. We don’t fly for the same reasons. I don’t check the cost of flights. It’s too depressing.

Enjoy your holiday!

Actually, this has led me to do what I've been meaning to do for a while, and compare the cost of my train trip to the South of France over Easter with how much it would cost to fly. Quite gratified to discover that, coming from Cornwall, taking the train works out cheaper. This is with a 4 day Interrail pass (10% off in March!), which covers the trip from Cornwall to London FoC. You do, however, have to pay supplements for Eurostar , the night sleeper to the Cote d'Azur, and the TGV (but you save on a night's accommodation if you take the sleeper). So in total I will have spent £260 on transport.

Just looked up flights, and they're about £200 return from Bristol for those dates, plus about £110 return on the train to get there.

(Punches air 😆)

Oh, and I'm stopping off for 24 hours in Paris 😊

I'm not so sure the road and rail options are any more environmentally friendly . Imagine each of those flight passengers in a car instead ? 6 and half a dozen ?

whoturnedthesunoff maybe look it up? Comparison charts are easy to find online 🙄

@crackofdoom

Actually, this has led me to do what I've been meaning to do for a while, and compare the cost of my train trip to the South of France over Easter with how much it would cost to fly. Quite gratified to discover that, coming from Cornwall, taking the train works out cheaper. This is with a 4 day Interrail pass (10% off in March!), which covers the trip from Cornwall to London FoC. You do, however, have to pay supplements for Eurostar , the night sleeper to the Cote d'Azur, and the TGV (but you save on a night's accommodation if you take the sleeper). So in total I will have spent £260 on transport.

Just looked up flights, and they're about £200 return from Bristol for those dates, plus about £110 return on the train to get there.

(Punches air 😆)

Oh, and I'm stopping off for 24 hours in Paris 😊

But surely on the flight - no need for any food etc But on days of Travel… you’re going to have to spend money on buying food

My time has a value.

Add that to the other options and it’s suddenly not such a great deal.

crack of doom - I actually thought you had to be doing a lot more train travel to make an interrail pass worth it (ie a train holiday, not just using them to get to destination) so I didn't look. Maybe I have lost out on the youngest two children - will definitely bear it in mind for the future; thank you! I'm glad your holiday works out cheaper than flying - bonus!

raging - thank you, we will do. I won't think about the money again. As I said, it's not really about me and my family, we can swallow the extra. But it annoys me because that's a very privileged position to be in and not the case for many/the majority.

Well, 2 of the days of travel are nights- night train (sleeper) Paris- S.of France, so I save on a night's accommodation, then night train from London back to Cornwall (again- included in the price , although a couchette isn't, so I'm condemned to an "airline style seat"). So actual waking hours travelling will be similar to those of flying, once you factor in travelling to/ from the airport. Plus, it means I'll be able to eat in city centres rather than airports- probably a saving, definitely nicer!