to think it should be financially rewarding not to fly

[blameitonthecaffeine]

I know there's probably no way round it but it annoys me that not flying is so much more expensive than flying.

After 2 years of not going abroad, I felt too guilty about the environmental impact to jet off again this summer so we've booked a holiday in Greece and are going there via trains and ferries.

Per adult, (children cheaper obviously) it has cost me around £350 for the train tickets and £140 for the ferry. So total £490.

I had a look at flights and a cheaper end (but direct) flight, with add ons of hold luggage and booking the seats would have been about £175 per person.

I'm very fortunate that I can afford this choice but really, it's hardly surprising that flying is so popular is it?!

Is there a way of making other transport options cheaper do you think or is it just the way it has to be?

I'm not even sure trains are that much better than planes after all this faff, time and money! It's 48 hours of travelling instead of around 4 for a start! Although we can see interesting places on the way (and build up more costs with additional nights accommodation!)

www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/france-to-suspend-short-haul-flights-from-april/

"In April 2021, members of the French parliament voted to suspend short domestic flights if the journey could be completed by train within an hour and a half or less to reduce carbon emissions"

It's a start.

It’s not that important for general people to stop flying altogether. Really it isn’t. Planes are the lowest CO2 per passenger to get from point A to B for all long haul flights. It’s short haul flights you should avoid.

The diesel from trains and ferries are much more polluting when you take into account the NO2 and particulates which are a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2 alone. If you’re travelling long distance, it is often more CO2 per passenger between origin and destination.

The blanket flying bad, train good is too simplistic.

@DuesToTheDirt

Totally agree. Even for domestic trips it is often cheaper to fly than to take the train, which is completely wrong. And as we live in Scotland, if we go abroad I don't want to spend the first day of our holiday just getting to the south coast.

You could spend the first night instead, and take the Caledonian Sleeper to Euston.

I fly to Cornwall. It's usually only about £20 more expensive than the train, and is about 6 hours quicker.

I agree. It’s so expensive and I used to be frightened of flying so badly that I used to only go by trains and ferries. It was crazy expensive and took a long time. It can be interesting to see the views as you travel and there’s not all the faff with security at airports.

I agree, I also think trains are better if you’re travelling with young children.

blameitonthecaffeine There are so many factors determining whether an Interrail pass is the best option or not! Factors that might tip the balance in favour would include: a long initial journey in the UK (because they don't charge supplements in the UK, and as we know too well British trains are £££), whether you have kids with you (12-26 still get the youth passes, which are a lot cheaper), whether you're travelling in countries which charge lots of supplements (looking at you France and Italy 🙄), and whether you're travelling at a busy time with more expensive fares.

I haven't flown anywhere in nearly ten years, but I don't think I should be remunerated for it, in a way I have been, because I haven't paid for any flights.

I just hate flying. Also have child with SEN who I'm terrified of flying with.

Yes but think of the self satisfaction when you’re sat in a taverna and gloating about your green credentials.
All the people that have flown will be cringing with shame.

I mean you could just...not go to Greece.

Nothing wrong with flying. It’s quicker, easier, cheaper and a far better experience than any other mode of travel.

I've got a difficult quandary. I really want to go to see something in a country where the train services have been decimated in the last few years. Partly because of covid (and the finance issues resulting), partly because of political disagreements with their neighbour. All that's left is a sparse service between the capital and another city, plus a few branches. Nothing crossing the border, nothing going to my destination, nothing between the capital and the second-largest city. I checked a 2014 timetable and I could have done the lot by rail then.

I looked into coaches, there are two a week going to/from my destination, and at really silly times (arriving 4am, that sort of thing). Can't even be confident that I'll be able to use them, the website is a bit primitive.

I looked into getting a coach across the border and then hiring a car but again the service is fairly sparse and not very integrated with arriving trains.

Waiting until the country's railways get their act together is not an option (some of these services haven't run since 2018 and there's little indication of a change), if I want to see this, it's now or never, it's unlikely to last much longer.

So I may have to shelve my principles and fly. I can get the train to Germany and then a direct flight to my destination. I really don't want to do that, but may have no choice. Still, it would be my first flight in 8 years and I don't own a car so I suppose that in comparison to Abramovich's 33,000 tonne annual carbon footprint, the tonne or so this flight ticket generates isn't quite the end of the world.

bananabutter what, apart from releasing massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, airports usually being in the middle of nowhere so you have to pay for transport into town/extortionate Airport parking, having to arrive 2 hours in advance, frequent delays and being squashed into an extremely cramped cabin with recycled air?

....Yeah, delightful 😆

Oh, I forgot the security checks. Are they still making everyone remove their boots?

Can't believe I forgot baggage allowances, and having to wait for your hold baggage to come out in the baggage reclaim/ fretting that your carry on won't be small enough 😬. None of that on trains 😆

@whoturnedthesunoff

I'm not so sure the road and rail options are any more environmentally friendly . Imagine each of those flight passengers in a car instead ? 6 and half a dozen ?

@whoturnedthesunoff London-Glasgow return carbon footprints:

Flight 368kg (per passenger)
Efficient car 237kg (total)
Large SUV 1,020kg (total)
Train 64kg (per passenger)

So train is always far better than flying. Driving is usually better than flying too, unless you are going in a large SUV with only one or two occupants.

To those of you who take train/ferry etc. to Europe - did you book it yourself using ferry company or Eurotunnel or use a travel agent?

I mean you could just...not go to Greece

Well yes, always an option of course! But, to be honest, Greece is already an improvement for us. I've lived in a total bubble for far too long - have several children and have travelled all over the world. It's been amazing but it's really time to wise up and try and be better in all ways I can find. We've done 2 years of Cornwall and Scotland (lovely, don't get me wrong but I've always had a travel bug) and now I really want to start travelling again - but in a better way if possible.

crackofdoom you sound like an expert. Not related to themaninseat61 are you?!

If you were really worried about the environment you'd be staying closer to home.

myee I booked it all myself, but did most of the reservations via the Interrail app, except for the reservation on the night train back to Cornwall, which I had to do in person, at the station 🙄.

For booking normal tickets/ viewing times, the raileurope website is excellent (the SNCF website is not 😆). The man in seat 61- seat61.com is an excellent website about worldwide rail travel- massively informative. He also gives info on ferry crossings and how to combine them with trains.

Ha ha caffeine, cross posted! I may well be the man in seat 61's biggest fangirl 😆

@crackofdoom

Well, 2 of the days of travel are nights- night train (sleeper) Paris- S.of France, so I save on a night's accommodation, then night train from London back to Cornwall (again- included in the price , although a couchette isn't, so I'm condemned to an "airline style seat"). So actual waking hours travelling will be similar to those of flying, once you factor in travelling to/ from the airport. Plus, it means I'll be able to eat in city centres rather than airports- probably a saving, definitely nicer!

Works great for single traveller The food and drink whilst on the go on public transport for 2 nights / 4 days of inter railing would be outweigh cost savings i reckon

Sorry I missed where you said actual waking hours will be the same as flying?

How on earth have you worked that out?!

Oh well done DdraigGoch, for actually looking the figures up. I couldn't be arsed to, only to have more posters pop up downthread faux- innocently saying they've never seen any figures, but that they're sure flying isn't that much worse than driving or taking the train 🙄

Flight 368kg (per passenger)
Efficient car 237kg (total)
Large SUV 1,020kg (total)
Train 64kg (per passenger)

Doesn't this suggest 4 people in an efficient car is better than them going on a train??

We're driving to Scotland for a long weekend next week. (3 of us). I've a course to go to, when we looked at train fares we concluded that it would cost less in petrol for us to drive and all go. Flying (on my own) would probably have been cheaper though.

I strongly believe that it is appropriate to subsidise train services, and local buses. Then ensure the services are extensive enough that people can use them, and they will use them.