To think elite sport isn't inclusive

[Dinosauria]

And the main reason is financial.

Lots in the news about how people should/shouldn't be included in sport and the loudest voice is that sport must be inclusive.

But it isn't, elite sport cost a lot of money, amateur sport costs a lot of money, there must be a significantly greater number of people that are excluded from sport than those that are excluded based on their biological sex.

Where is the fury when it comes to children not being able to afford to participate?

Even football/rugby grassroots is run by volunteers but still around £80-100 a year and then boots/kit etc and then match fees, fuel to and from matches etc.
Swimming, £100 per month for county level plus race fees and fuel to travel
Cycling, triathlon all have large fees and kit requirements, whilst of course it is possible to manage on a shoe string when you compete for fun as soon as it becomes more serious it becomes expensive.

Travel, hotels all become a necessity when you start competing at a higher level.

Top Olympians in the UK are four times as likely to be privately educated than the population as a whole.

Sporting bodies should be looking into this rather than denying biology.

YANBU.

Like a PP states it's called Elite Sport sometimes because it is only the financially elite can fund it. There will be many that miss out because they cannot afford to fund it.

For those that are unaware, even novice Equestrian sport is not a level playing field. It is not just based on the horse, the skill of the rider is about part of the success but there will many incredibly talented riders out there that will never, ever get the opportunity to shine because they or their parents can't afford the top class horses and facilities that other parents can.

That's life but I'll never be fooled by the "They're at the top purely because of talent and hard work", particularly in Equestrian sport.

It’s a competition OP. The very opposite of ‘inclusive’.

There will become a point when the division between male and female is no longer necessary, which is surely a good thing.

Because they’re actually all males? Great idea! Just think of all the things we can level up for ‘women’ by simply reclassifying male people. Pay gap, sex-based violence, visibility... Just jettison the inferior female women in favour of the male women who out-class them on all these fronts and we can achieve equality for women at a stroke!

There will become a point when the division between male and female is no longer necessary, which is surely a good thing.

I think a few of us are not understanding why this would be a good thing.

Can you please explain @Nicholethejewellery?

@Nicholethejewellery - ah, you're one of the "women don't try hard enough" brigade, or as I prefer to call them, "morons".

@DogsAndGin

It’s a competition OP. The very opposite of ‘inclusive’.

That I know, but inclusivity is the buzz word.

I do know these are different points, but I know talented children who are not able to compete due to their parents financial situation (even ones that have got scholarships but very few of these cover every extra cost)

Monty I don't understand your post, any of it but especially this

Because the most genetically gifted sports women on earth will be beaten pretty effortlessly by fairly mediocre men (in elite sport terms).

[quote inventinglouise]@Nicholethejewellery - ah, you're one of the "women don't try hard enough" brigade, or as I prefer to call them, "morons".[/quote]

Those saying Elite sport is only for the best of the best and that is why it is not inclusive are wrong.
Elite sportspeople are not the best of the best. They are the best of the ones who can afford it.

Of course elite sport is not inclusive - it wouldn't be called elite support if it were. The clue is somewhat in the title.

The olympics, aren't meant to be inclusive. They are some of the most exclusive events in the world. Only the best in the world get to enter.

I think what you mean is accessible. Sports should strive to be accessible to those who want to partake. But elite sports are not inclusive - only the top performers get to participate.

No, it isn't, that's what elite means. Also, the schools thing isn't a great indicator in this instance OP, as (some) private schools offer extraordinary scholarships and facilities for kids competing at the top end. My DD was briefly at a school in the South West which had 2 olympians in the queue for lunch at the canteen.. The swim team boarded, were in the pool at 5 a.m and were allowed to sleep through lessons. None of them came from wealthy backgrounds and all were on huge scholarships. They were basically recruited at a VERY junior age as part of the schools branding.

@Hornetfarmer

Those saying Elite sport is only for the best of the best and that is why it is not inclusive are wrong. Elite sportspeople are not the best of the best. They are the best of the ones who can afford it.

Totally this.

But short of massively increasing funding of sport at all levels, what can be done about it?

No that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying only those with financially stable backgrounds become elite, not the top performers, Hornetfarmer (although why the fuck you'd want to farm Hornets) has a more succinct reply.

Shopbought you actually prove my point. Many children do not get the chance to learn to swim as it is expensive. Those that get scouted for scholarships are club swimmers. The local club takes on children from 2, by 7 they are competing and swimming a lot. Whilst these may not be very wealthy backgrounds they are still financially stable to be able to commit to swimming in the first place

But it's the same for almost literally everything.

If you want to be good at music you need the money for an instrument and lessons and to drive up and down the country for recitals.

If you want to be good at art you need money for materials.

Etc. Yeah, it's not necessarily fair but what can be done about it, realistically?

@monsterpup

And you're 100% right OP, wealth is the biggest barrier to amateur sport and without amateur sport you will never know if you are capable of stepping up to elite sport.

My university requires you to buy a >£100 gym membership in one payment to join any of their sports clubs, whether you use the gym facilities or not. That's just not affordable for so many students and suddenly you're excluded from sports at university!

You want to see the cost of an entire year for somebody who isn't a student.

Lots of things, at the very top level, are elitist, by being prohibitively expensive for a certain percentage of people, regardless of their ability (private education, university, any extra curricular activities like dance, drama or music, being an MP )
I'm not saying that makes it OK but it's not just sport that is like that.
But I also don't think the fact it's financially elitist should mean transwomen should be allowed to compete with biological women (I would say trans people but a trans man would be at a disadvantage against biological men so I can't imagine many of them are in elite competitions)

@NeverDropYourMooncup my point is that most gyms, while more expensive over a year, don't require you to pay hundreds of pounds upfront and most club sports don't make you pay for a gym you won't use before you get the honour to pay for their club

It depends on the sport, in some sports (rugby for example), if you have the talent then the path to becoming elite isn’t expensive. You’re looking at around £80-120 a year, if you can’t afford it kit etc is provided.

When I think about the other lads who were in the academy with me no one was wealthy, no one was really even middle class.

As someone who grew up in poverty and had to be financially independent from 17, my lack of money never held me back in rugby. In fact my earnings and the flexibility of rugby are the only reason I could attend university.

The trans debate is very different, it is similar to other kinds of cheating like performance enhancing drugs.

When looking at the financial barriers there are going to be some sports and hobbies that are more accessible than others. With football the full kit is expensive but loads of kids on our council estate would practice with friends on the local green. One did go for some kind of test at a local club and played for them.

But something like horse riding is out of the reach of many. Even swimming, we didn't have a pool at school so I never learned to swim.

None of it is fair but what can you do? My DC school has clubs after school but don't provide transport after. I don't know what a solution would be.

But I also don't think the fact it's financially elitist should mean transwomen should be allowed to compete with biological women

Well quite.

We should be trying to improve access for the less well off, not throwing our hands up and saying oh well it's only for the elite anyway, let's throw biological women under the bus too.

@darlingdodo

Dunno, there seem to be quite a few men in elite football who are definitely not from privileged backgrounds.

Exactly. Some sports are better than others in this regard

But I also don't think the fact it's financially elitist should mean transwomen should be allowed to compete with biological women

Gosh no, neither do I, apologies if not clear. I'm saying sport isn't inclusive for lots of other reasons. It's worse being unable to access it because you don't have the money than it is because you have feelz.

[quote monsterpup]@NeverDropYourMooncup my point is that most gyms, while more expensive over a year, don't require you to pay hundreds of pounds upfront and most club sports don't make you pay for a gym you won't use before you get the honour to pay for their club [/quote]
Joining fees?

I know someone from my dc sports club who is an elite athlete. They were warming up members of our Olympic team last year for the event and are highly tipped to be there next time.

Like my dc they started off with borrowed and second hand kit, only buying high quality kit when needed. By the time it became apparent that the investment was needed they had prioritised this in their financial planning.

There are many sports out there and many coaches- ours suggested that our dd train for free for a term when dh lost his job as he thought that the rest of the club members benefitted from having her train with them. She now helps and supports with the coaching and is a valued member of the club. Her coach believes she has the potential to go to the top of her sport and they know what they are doing.

I actually think football is pretty inclusive. There is a global network of talent scouts and they identify young players with potential and start them training with local professional clubs - providing kit etc when required. Obviously not all of them have the talent, determination, resilence and commitment to make it to the top, but the opportunities are there.
Other sports not so much.

Agree with the fact that many sports require money AND hugely dedicated parents for their children to progress from being good at school to competing nationally and internationally.

Tennis IMHO is one of the worst. Wimbledon gets millions but their outreach program is bad and tennis courts limited. Football does better, but the pyramid is sharply peaked - so you start as young as 8 but can get kicked out early because you haven't made the grade. By which time you may have spent so much time training you haven't done as much schooling.

Of course winter sports, equitation et al require huge funds. Rowing has done some decent outreach in London but I wonder if they're doing it everywhere. Sailing is trying hard.

Track and field requires tracks and fields. The one thing Prince Philip tried to do was face off schools selling sports fields (but then some had to just to keep going or didn't have them in the first place). Even running requires decent shoes.

Yet some of the best footballers and cricketers have come from places where you made the best you could. But that was in the olden days.

OP I totally agree. Sports organisations everywhere should be looking to encourage grass root sports through to elite. And sort themselves out about the trans issue before it overwhelms them and turns so many people off sport.