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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do people keep dangerous dogs???

490 replies

Ori18 · 31/03/2022 10:23

Another little boy pronounced dead this morning on the news - the toddler who was mauled on Monday and subsequently suffered a cardiac arrest. The dogs in question are not thought to be banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act - but I'd be interested to know which breeds they were as it's quite evident that certain breeds are more dangerous to children than others - why aren't Rottweiler's on the banned list for example?

And even though Pitt Bull Terriers are banned, people still go out of their way to own them, and are then shocked when they attack small children, maul babies, tear limbs off people. It makes me so angry. Same goes for German Shepherds and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. The Bull Terrier dogs are/were specifically bred for fighting - why would you even consider having one of these types of dogs around a baby or a small child? What is going on there? Is it lack of intelligence? Lack of education? Lack of giving a fuck? Because I think there need to be more dogs on the banned list, and heavier penalties served to people who insist on breaking the law to keep these dogs.

Aggressive/dangerous dogs and babies/small children do not mix, should never be mixed and it shouldn't take more deaths for the law to change around this. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
MiniTheMinx · 31/03/2022 22:32

Mickarooni equally so prolific biters (labs) and small highly strung nippers and small children are not a good mix.

foxlover47 · 31/03/2022 22:40

I don't understand any owner having a dog off lead who can't recall it back , my dogs are never off lead unless they are at the secure field I pay £12 an hour to let them off in.
Just because I like and love my
Dogs I don't expect other people to , same if DD has friends round, the dogs are kept away because why wouldn't they be !
We need to bring back licences for owning dogs

Bleepitandbleepitagain · 31/03/2022 22:44

Our family owns both. Loving tiny chi cross. Big lump of a dog too.

What do we do? Train. And train. Walks even when we feel like arse three times a day.

Both listen to our toddlers. Perfectly. Right down to leaving treats.

Also we never, ever leave them alone. Just because dogs are dogs and toddlers are toddlers.

It isn't the dog. The horror stories you hear do usually involve some kind of negligence. Can they turn? Yes but less likely with proper training. Of children and dogs.

MangyInseam · 31/03/2022 22:53

@Hoppinggreen

Rottweilers are no more dangerous than any other large dog but to be fair you would have no chance pulling one (let alone 2) off a small child Nothing wrong with Staffies either but the whole “nanny dog” thing is a crock of shit. People don’t really understand dog behaviour and think they can control their dogs but many of them are clueless and shouldn’t be in charge of a chihuahua let alone a large powerful dog with the potential to kill
It depends on what you mean by cock. Obviously any dog can be dangerous and you shouldn't leave small kids with them. Even small placid dogs.

But Staffies and pit bull type dogs were at one time considered to be good family dogs and good with kids, because they were traditionally very people oriented and not especially sensitive to pain. At least in the US they are still pretty popular with vets as family dogs for that reason.

People seem to make the assumption that a breed developed for dog or bull fighting is going to be anti-social to people, which is a mistake, the handlers didn't want to get bit, they wanted a dog who would listen. Guard type dogs and even some of the terriers are actually more likely to bite. JRKs and Scotties can be really unreliable in that sense, I think people don't consider them dangerous because of their size.

MangyInseam · 31/03/2022 22:54

It depends on what you mean by cock.

Oops. Crock, it should say.

MangyInseam · 31/03/2022 23:03

The other thing to keep in mind is that actually, given the numbers of kids and numbers of dogs, kids being killed by dogs is really really uncommon. They are much more likely to be killed by other things, like their parents, other adults, cars, poison in the house, etc

It's nice to think that we can get all risk down to 0 but it's not very realistic.

ThatDamnedDog · 31/03/2022 23:07

I have two Rotties and a big male boxer, and the most aggressive dog by far is next door’s Jack Russell. It is viscous, and until we changed the hedging to a fence, it frequently used to dig into our garden and try to kill my cat and attack my dogs.

My dogs are trained and well socialised, my neighbour’s dog less so. So is it the “dangerous dogs” or the shameful dangerous and neglectful owners?

The worst dog that I have owned for aggression has been a dachshund/terrier cross breed, he could never be off lead and was never allowed to be alone with my children.

HiJenny35 · 31/03/2022 23:10

You have to be deluded to think certain breeds aren't more dangerous than others, to suggest its just down to the owners is ridiculous. Its always the same breeds of dogs that are named time and time again that have killed children and always the owners say "he'd never done anything like it before" well sadly it only takes once and they never think it's going to be their precious Teddy. People who have rottie, staffs, pitbulls, they are always the same type of person. They dog walkers all give them a wide birth, the dog sitters near me won't take any of them because they've had so many occasions of violence towards other dogs, nothing nice about them and any person who wants a dog that has the ability to hurt someone so badly are just like gun owners in the USA. Yes any dog can attack but I can kill a terrier by kicking it off and easily get free, these dogs and you're child is dead. Why would any normal person want that kind of risk to other people.

missymarrk · 31/03/2022 23:16

@XelaM

OP - I agree with every word and people who claim Rottweilers are "big softies" are just mental. I have a dog, but he's tiny and I purposely chose a toy companion breed because I want a friendly family dog!
I actually find that really offensive! Don't be so narrow minded
saltinesandcoffeecups · 31/03/2022 23:17

I like to tell this story when this subject comes up… don’t expect it to change minds, and it’s clearly an anecdote.

A guy I knew barely… basically we were people who went to the same neighborhood bar… had an American Bulldog. She was honestly the biggest dog I’ve ever seen, even 20 years later. Her head was bigger than mine as a full grown adult. She had be over 150lbs. She was never on a leash, she would sit by the door as ran in. One day I got to talking to him about her.

He told me somebody owed him money for a job he did (he was a painter by trade) while he was trying to collect the guy was bragging about his new pup, who apparently came from good fighting stock. He was excited to start training her so that one day she could fight her father. (In case you haven’t caught on yet she was a bred fighting dog intended to be used for illegal dog fighting). The guy I knew said, you know what you owe me a lot of money. Pay now or give me me the pup. The other couldn’t pay so grudgingly gave him the pup.

So he said he took the pup and one of the first things he did was drop her in a pile of little kids and proceeded to socialize her in every positive way he could. She was fully grown when I met her and was truly the best dog, warmest, happiest dog I had ever met.

I saw her give 1 warning over the years I knew her, and it was when she was under the table I was sitting at, and two men approached me. These two were known criminals in the neighborhood (they kind that ooze danger) and the minute she felt they were too close she gave a warning growl, and moved to get between me and them. They tried one more step and she bared teeth. They got the hint and backed off. Her owner was standing in the doorway watching what was going on and he said he would have stopped her before anything happened, but he knew who those two were and wanted them to know she was serious.

The minute they left she was laying her head in my lap drooling and giving me lovey eyes. And didn’t make a sound or acknowledge anyone else on the busy street that night or any other time after that.

If you’re still with me after that story… feel free to add this to any narrative you feel appropriate, but know that one dangerous breed dog who literally came from the dog fighting world who was the pup of active fighting dogs was not dangerous and was well behaved and well socialized and could give and receive love.

nokidshere · 31/03/2022 23:29

Are you actually serious?
What an utterly moronic and embarrassing message.
What do you expect you have animals and then when you have children you get rid of them?
I'm baffled.
You know what's worse... all the children's mothers would let them come and play and we all often would be out in the grass!!! 😳🫢🫣😱😱😱😱😱😱
Hopefully one day we can all live how you think it should be huh

Ok if you say so. But given that most of the answers on here are about the unpredictability of children rather than the animals why would you let a big dog like a rotti play out in the street potentially with children you don't know who might pull it's ears or try to ride on it.

If it did decide to sink its teeth into one of the children you wouldn't be able to stop it in time from your spot on the grass. Children and animals are unpredictable together and that doesn't matter what size the dog is. Dogs should not be off lead in public spaces.

And no, I don't have pets.

Perfectlystill · 31/03/2022 23:33

Reading this thread I'm struck by the unwarranted aggression with which owners of Rottweilers, GSDs, and Staffies are defending their dogs.

Kind of see why they chose their dogs.

I grew up with loads of dogs and am very relaxed with them and have one myself. But I've been attacked only once by a dog - a Rottweiler that chased over to me as I ran around a park and jumped up at me, totally unprovoked. It was in a muzzle, thank god, but still knocked me to the ground and its owner had a hard job getting it back on the lead again.

No question some breeds tend more towards aggression than others.

XelaM · 31/03/2022 23:38

The point is if a dog that is stronger and much more muscular than a fully grown man suddenly decides to attack, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop it. If my pug decided to bite I could easily fight him off. So why have a breed of dog that is much stronger and therefore by definition more dangerous as a family pet?!? I just don't get it.

TreacheryPepper · 31/03/2022 23:47

I have a staffy and a rotty/staff cross. We also have a toddler. The dogs are big softies and we've had them since puppies - they all love each other. I wouldn't leave a small child alone with any pets though.

Both dogs sleep in with my teenager at night though.

XelaM · 31/03/2022 23:48

My dog is tiny (around 7-8 Kg - looks like a big cat) and extremely friendly. He loves nothing more than to cuddle up to someone on the sofa or bed (preferably on the electric blanket). He adores kids and loves getting fussed over and cuddled, but... I am still always extra vigilant when he is around other people's kids as you simply never know. I wouldn't just let him run around on the grass with a group of random kids unless I was there and he was on a lead. And he is a tiny fraction of a Rottweiler size

Myee · 01/04/2022 00:04

There are far too many pet dogs now. Dogs should be working dogs only. They can be dangerous no matter how good the owner is, and I am sick of the mantra "it is not the dog it's the owner" well if the owner didn't have a dog no child or anyone else would be injured or killed. End of story, there is no excuse.

If people want a dog as a pet they should really live outside urban areas, there is no proper environment for dogs in suburbs, towns and cities, so they have to be walked twice a day outside in the streets somewhere, and the potential is always there for one of these dogs to go rogue on their walkies. Happens every single day.

Most owners are selfish. The dog this, the dog that, can I bring it into the pub/restaurant/supermarket/on holidays blah blah blah. I am indifferent to dogs and pets in general. I would not harm a hair on their heads ever, but would rather be miles away from any of them.

Not an acceptable view to many I am sure, but I am entitled to voice it just the same. I am not afraid to say it to people when out also. Sitting outside a restaurant the other day this woman had three furry things yapping and exploring (on a long lead). All around my feet and it drove me mad. I asked the owner if she would mind keeping the dogs over her side of the tables. Well the look I got! I was told that the dogs were her pets, were very well behaved and well trained and look....they really like you! Ugh, get away from me.. I've had it with them.

I have a serious back injury because a rogue dog was let off the leash in the local park and knocked me over. I won't say more because I will lose it. The owner marched off and didn't ask if I was OK. I was not.

Unforgettablefire · 01/04/2022 00:16

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I like to tell this story when this subject comes up… don’t expect it to change minds, and it’s clearly an anecdote.

A guy I knew barely… basically we were people who went to the same neighborhood bar… had an American Bulldog. She was honestly the biggest dog I’ve ever seen, even 20 years later. Her head was bigger than mine as a full grown adult. She had be over 150lbs. She was never on a leash, she would sit by the door as ran in. One day I got to talking to him about her.

He told me somebody owed him money for a job he did (he was a painter by trade) while he was trying to collect the guy was bragging about his new pup, who apparently came from good fighting stock. He was excited to start training her so that one day she could fight her father. (In case you haven’t caught on yet she was a bred fighting dog intended to be used for illegal dog fighting). The guy I knew said, you know what you owe me a lot of money. Pay now or give me me the pup. The other couldn’t pay so grudgingly gave him the pup.

So he said he took the pup and one of the first things he did was drop her in a pile of little kids and proceeded to socialize her in every positive way he could. She was fully grown when I met her and was truly the best dog, warmest, happiest dog I had ever met.

I saw her give 1 warning over the years I knew her, and it was when she was under the table I was sitting at, and two men approached me. These two were known criminals in the neighborhood (they kind that ooze danger) and the minute she felt they were too close she gave a warning growl, and moved to get between me and them. They tried one more step and she bared teeth. They got the hint and backed off. Her owner was standing in the doorway watching what was going on and he said he would have stopped her before anything happened, but he knew who those two were and wanted them to know she was serious.

The minute they left she was laying her head in my lap drooling and giving me lovey eyes. And didn’t make a sound or acknowledge anyone else on the busy street that night or any other time after that.

If you’re still with me after that story… feel free to add this to any narrative you feel appropriate, but know that one dangerous breed dog who literally came from the dog fighting world who was the pup of active fighting dogs was not dangerous and was well behaved and well socialized and could give and receive love.

Lovely story thank you for sharing Smile that dog got lucky so did the owner she sounds like a cracking dog.
Natty13 · 01/04/2022 00:47

@Myee

There are far too many pet dogs now. Dogs should be working dogs only. They can be dangerous no matter how good the owner is, and I am sick of the mantra "it is not the dog it's the owner" well if the owner didn't have a dog no child or anyone else would be injured or killed. End of story, there is no excuse.

If people want a dog as a pet they should really live outside urban areas, there is no proper environment for dogs in suburbs, towns and cities, so they have to be walked twice a day outside in the streets somewhere, and the potential is always there for one of these dogs to go rogue on their walkies. Happens every single day.

Most owners are selfish. The dog this, the dog that, can I bring it into the pub/restaurant/supermarket/on holidays blah blah blah. I am indifferent to dogs and pets in general. I would not harm a hair on their heads ever, but would rather be miles away from any of them.

Not an acceptable view to many I am sure, but I am entitled to voice it just the same. I am not afraid to say it to people when out also. Sitting outside a restaurant the other day this woman had three furry things yapping and exploring (on a long lead). All around my feet and it drove me mad. I asked the owner if she would mind keeping the dogs over her side of the tables. Well the look I got! I was told that the dogs were her pets, were very well behaved and well trained and look....they really like you! Ugh, get away from me.. I've had it with them.

I have a serious back injury because a rogue dog was let off the leash in the local park and knocked me over. I won't say more because I will lose it. The owner marched off and didn't ask if I was OK. I was not.

Nah, people's choice to have kids and live in a city doesn't come above someone else's choice to have a dog a live in a city are you mental?
RobertaFirmino · 01/04/2022 00:50

@theton

Someone being killed by a cockerpoo isn’t newsworthy.

i think it would be, has anyone been killed by a cockerpoo?

I doubt it. Small jaws and easier to remove. That doesn't mean that they are less likely to attack though.
BlackCountryWench2 · 01/04/2022 01:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WiddlinDiddlin · 01/04/2022 04:38

There is another myth that really needs to die, unfortunately it isn't popular, dispelling this myth.

'There are no bad dogs/dogs are never born bad'.. etc.

Well.. yes, actually, many dogs are born 'bad', if by 'bad' we mean genetically predisposed to be fearful, to be anxious, to be more inclined to choose aggression when they feel threatened, to be more inclined to choose biting when they feel threatened...

There is a pervasive and horribly inaccurate idea that a puppy is a 'blank slate', and that being so, if you raise any puppy the right way, they will therefore turn out to be a wonderful, happy, well balanced dog.

That isn't true.

It cannot be true, because we now know that learned experience CAN be passed on genetically.

Fear (check out the mice and the cherry scent study, as its half 4 in the morning I can't be arsed to find it) learned by just ONE parent* can be passed to the offspring even when the offspring NEVER experiences the aversive stimuli.

So lets say Joe Toughs Pitbull learns to be terrified of the smell of baby powder - he's bred to Bob Arseholes pitbull who is genetically predisposed to want to use aggression first rather than last when scared.

The offspring all stand a chance of a/being scared of the smell of baby powder and b/being predisposed to use aggression first. But you wouldn't know which until much later on down the line.

No amount of training is going to alter that, you could raise that puppy with the absolute best of everything and still not ever guarantee that puppy won't react fearfully in that specific situation. If you're a sensible owner, the risks are minimal... but you could end up with a dog you have to manage super carefully it's entire life.

This is a wholly unpopular view with rescues of course because many of them raise puppies in less than ideal situations, from bitches and dogs who are unknown quantities and have (bitches at least) likely suffered some extreme stress during the pregnancy.

Its also typically a totally unknown thing as far as breeders of many dogs are concerned - neither old school showing breeders nor backyard arseholes tend to go to lectures on epigenetics.

So yes, unfortunately some dogs can even with the best intentions of breeder and buyer, and the best care and training - be born predisposed to be fearful.

If you combine that with poor training, use of aversives, bullshit like pack theory/rank reduction/dominance theory/poor housing, poor handling, lack of socialisation and enrichment... You easily end up with dogs who appear (the signs are generally there, but the people closest to the dog are neither looking for them nor likely to recognise them) to suddenly do something violent without warning.

We could seriously reduce the risks of this if no one bred from dogs with iffy temperaments, ensured bitches never experienced stress during pregnancy and raising a litter, ensured all dogs had the very best care... but I won't hold my breath for that!

(*study used males because theres a chance offspring can learn from the mother in the litter, but theres no reason to suggest they can't also get a fearful gene from the mother)

DetMcNulty · 01/04/2022 05:06

I have a big dog, he's 60kg part mastiff, got him as a rescue puppy and he's been through lots of training. I was conscious of the size of him, and did make sure we did specific training one on one, and the trainer was the lack of exercise is a huge part in aggression / poor behaviour in dogs. We run 8 to 10 km in the morning, then another walk at least another 5 km in the evening and he is super well behaved and chilled, but it takes a lot of work and vigilance which I think is underestimated. We're in Australia, so can take him off lead bush running, but I made sure his recall is 100% and he's been trained not to go near the wildlife, for his sake and theirs, particularly the kangaroos that bounce across the track and the snakes. Number of times I've met others with off lead dogs who's dogs have done a runner chasing a kangaroo is shocking.

I had him out for dinner at a pub, we were on a grassed section away from others, with some friends and their dogs, some idiot walked over with their baby, told me he loves dogs and plopped him on the grass in front of them. As soon as he started to crawl, my dog absolutely freaked out as he'd never seen a baby move like that. I had him secured, so there was never a chance he'd get close, but that shows you the mentality of some people, and lack of understanding of dog behaviour.

He's saved me from a pretty nasty situation though, out in bush a guy having a mental health breakdown jumped out at me, swinging a branch and screaming, my boy charged him, but even in that situation, he never went as far as biting or attacking, he stopped as soon as the guy backed off and just stayed between us.

DetMcNulty · 01/04/2022 05:10

And the training has always been positive reinforcement, absolutely nothing to do with pack theory or dominance.

You do need to have a licence here though, and we have rangers who can issue fines for dogs off lead where they shouldn't be, and get involved if there are disputes / dog attacks / dogs being neglected etc.

Fairisleflora · 01/04/2022 05:26

I do think some owners forget that having a dog is their lifestyle choice, and it is unacceptable for their dog to obstruct the lives of those who don’t want anything to do with your dog. So no, I don’t want your dog to be anywhere near me in a public place - if it comes anywhere near me I expect you to call it back. If the dog doesn’t respond to your calling it needs to be on a lead at all times. Dogs shouldn’t be allowed to ‘join in’ my kids football game in a public park. It’s not ‘cute’ it is 100% unacceptable.

Dogs are of no overall benefit to society. They don’t grow up and pay taxes like children do, they just use up the worlds resources and leave shit everywhere. If you want a dog, get one but get it out of my face.

SamphiretheStickerist · 01/04/2022 06:44

@Thelnebriati

Am I the only dog owner on the entire thread that had third party insurance?
Nope! Cos that's what all of us sensible dog owners, who are being mainly ignored here, have.

Still, this is MN, where we are all idiots who can't make good decisions and daily threaten kids, and everyone else, without thought!

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