Awful idea to go into teaching?

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DD is in university and is beginning to think about career options.

Originally she was considering a law conversion. Now she isn't so sure and is rethinking. She is at Bristol reading History and is doing well in her degree so far.

The other day she asked me for some advice and told me that she is considering going into teaching as she has suddenly had a realisation that a city type career might not be for her.

DD is in two minds as on one hand going into law and ideally going into a corporate job like DH's appeals to her but on the other hand she isn't sure that she wants to do something which may be interesting but not as rewarding or inspirational as working with people. She is now looking into teaching and is thinking about something like Teach First and perhaps working in a secondary school.

The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated. However, it really appeals to her as she loves to explain concepts to people and had a brilliant time at school due to some really inspirational teachers she had.

Does anyone have any advice? I am really not too sure what to suggest as it has been a while since I have worked full time and don't know too much about teaching.

Mainly aimed at teachers on here. Just wondering if any of you would recommend?

Because l left to do a PGCE. Then l had a child who’s father cleared off. So l had to return to my home city, where there was no industry in my area of expertise. So l started teaching as my ds was very young and would have struggled for holiday cover. This was in the mid 90’s when teaching was quite as toxic as now.

Then l was stuck in teaching, and finally got out last year. I got ill health retirement and am not allowed to do any paid employment.

Every Monday in my industry job, I would have a meeting with my manager and I would have to explain and justify everything I had done that week. Salary increases and promotions were dependent on your appraisal.

Seriously compared with working as a lawyer with 16 hour days, there is no comparison. I also worked out in teaching you are a never more than 6 weeks from the next holiday

@jeanne16
Sounds just like my teaching job in terms of scrutiny.
Planning to hand in every Monday. Pupil progress meetings fortnightly, SEN individual learning plans to explain, assess and evidence to the Senco, subject leader meeting with a governor, tracking systems to complete, analysis weekly of reading records by SLT, lesson drop ins by SLT, other subject leads and school improvement adviser.

Performance management reviews based on the above, evidenced and to be achieved to meet any pay increment. Under performance means policies to follow, improve in 6 weeks or risk your job.

Absence negating any increment, one absence being half a day, only 3 absences allowed before attendance management procedures kick in.

Long, long hours over 7 or 8 week half terms, (can't be 6 weeks as 6 weeks times 6 half terms is only 36 weeks), no term time holidays or long weekends, work to do both in school and at home during the unpaid holidays.

I remember 20 years ago my mum’s friend who was a social worker coming to our school career evening and practically chasing me away from her table growling “no! I’m not talking to you, do not want to be a social worker. Shoo!”

Feels like that is what teaching has also become, by today.

@GivenchyDahhling

Teaching in a bad school is pretty awful. I’ve just left. But kids, education and learning really aren’t. It’s the culture around teaching.

I’ve now set up as self-employed doing a host of things related to teaching. I’m a senior examiner; involved in content creation for Ed tech companies, some tutoring - and I’ve just today found out that I’ve been appointed as an Ofsted inspector.

None of those things would be possible (except the tutoring maybe) if I hadn’t done my time as a teacher, and I’m working half the hours for double the pay. So I struggle to say that I wouldn’t recommend teaching because it opened doors for me, just not necessarily the ones I expected!!

@GivenchyDahhling I have been thinking about making a similar move. Do you mind if I PM you?

My son comes home appalled at the lack of discipline in school. Students just get up, leave the classroom and go and harass other classes. They're violent. They're frequently suspended. It's dangerous and miserable. The pay is shit.

If she wants to do exciting things like eat food and be able to pay for heat, why would she go into one of the worst paid careers in the UK just to be abused by thick teens all day?

I literally do additional work advising groups who try and get women into well-paid careers in tech, media, science and more. But honestly, it's fucking hard sometimes as a lot of women are so beaten down by life that they think 12k a year is generous and would probably work for free if someone told them too. They look at decent, respected jobs and mutter 'oh, I could never do that.' Confidence is the biggest barrier.

Tell her to aim higher.

If she wants to do exciting things like eat food and be able to pay for heat, why would she go into one of the worst paid careers in the UK just to be abused by thick teens all day?

Do you...do you think that teachers are paid £12k?

Do you...do you think that teachers are paid £12k?

Or that all teenagers are thick? Or even that all the badly-behaved ones are thick?

If I were currently teaching full-time, my salary (as a normal teacher with no additional responsibilities) would be £41,604. I mean, I know it's not a fortune, but it's hardly a pittance either.

As someone who did a law degree because school were pushing for me to use my grades... Don't let your DD do something she isn't keen on already. It's soul destroying in the long run.

If she wants to do exciting things like eat food and be able to pay for heat, why would she go into one of the worst paid careers in the UK just to be abused by thick teens all day?

I think the pay isn't bad & good pension but it is stressful.

My husband and I are both teachers and our household income is around £112,000 which I consider pretty good. Okay, not as high as my high flying lawyer friends in London, but we have enough to live the lifestyle we want- plus the time to travel in the holidays! We both work in independent schools.

I think a lot of people who consider going into teaching later in their academic career have this same dilemma - it's totally normal!

Honestly, I think the only way to really be sure is to get some experience. I know that's not the easiest solution, but it's more than worth it as teaching isn't for everyone, and if she's in two minds it's much better than diving in and hoping for the best.

Getting a bit of teaching assistant experience should help her to decide, and I'd recommend doing it with an agency like i-teachers, as if she's new to education it's good to get some advice.

Either way, she seems really intelligent and I'm sure she'll do well! Good luck :)

Ok firstly academia is a total shit show. Getting a permanent job in this country is like the holy grail. I don't know anyone who's achieved it in my cohort of humanities phds (graduated more than 10 years ago).

I'm not sure I'd recommend teaching based on what you read on here.

It feels like she's limiting her options a bit. There are lots of things she could do from marketing, advertising, PR, third sector, policy, civil service, commercial research, sales, local government, I could go on and on. Law itself is very varied. Perhaps she should talk to a decent careers advisor as a starting point. Not a uni one, but a private operator.

I would advise her to get some experience in schools shadowing a history department and talking to history teachers, observing lessons etc. I’m a current secondary teacher in my second year and being completely honest I’m really not enjoying it. I did all the right things before my PGCE observing lessons and getting work experience but the problem was those things don’t show you the reality of teaching. They only show you what goes on in the lessons which is the part everyone sees. She wants to really see the work behind the scenes so to be able to attend the CPD sessions, department meetings, watch a teacher plan a lesson from scratch and help with making the resources, supervise a detention and all the things they don’t show you before you become a teacher. Before teaching in secondary schools, I taught English as a foreign language abroad and I loved it because the classes were small and well motivated and a mix of kids and adults. There was little scrutiny and it was all supportive, no unnecessary paperwork… but it didn’t pay enough to live off hence going into secondary teaching. I’m doing my best because I’m aware a lot has been invested in my training and I teach a very niche subject for which there is a demand but I just don’t enjoy dealing with the constant apathy and negativity from pupils, the endless paperwork, boring CPD, constant re-planning of everything, nothing is ever good enough… I’m thinking of moving into something SEN related as I still believe in the power of education but I just need a better work life balance. I don’t have any hobbies anymore and I don’t look forward to going into work. I just feel meh about everything and if I’m already feeling like this in my second year, it’s not looking good for the long term.

I would encourage her to do law first and later down the line she could retrain as a teacher. It would be harder if it were the other way round.

Modern teaching does not let you be particularly creative, you are very restricted in subject matter, teaching delivery. Uou have HUGE oversight and are constantly being overseen, over managed and not really 'free' to develop in your own way. You are also governed by endless pointless testing which eats into what might have been time to teach or develop the student/ teacher connection. You are also the target of ire from parents, who will rarely respect you as a professional and dept heads, headteachers etc WILL merrily throw you under the proverbial bus. I've never worked in an environment so devoid of a sense of team, especially when you consider the continual monitoring of work. No support.

Retired secondary teacher here, and really enjoying my time off...have steered my offspring away from it as I was a paid security guard in some schools.

Maybe consider options more widely. Her degree doesn't push her down any particular path - if she likes the teaching/explaining concepts part without necessarily wanting to work in a school, there are other types of training she could go into, or take a bit of a different path and consider e.g. Speech and Language Therapy - a lot of simplifying concepts, but loads of other parts to it too - linguistics, anatomy etc etc. OT?
IT - training is always a big area in IT.
And law doesn't have to be city/corporate.

Maybe she could step back and think a bit more about what she would like to do.

@cafesandbookshops

I would advise her to get some experience in schools shadowing a history department and talking to history teachers, observing lessons etc. I’m a current secondary teacher in my second year and being completely honest I’m really not enjoying it. I did all the right things before my PGCE observing lessons and getting work experience but the problem was those things don’t show you the reality of teaching. They only show you what goes on in the lessons which is the part everyone sees. She wants to really see the work behind the scenes so to be able to attend the CPD sessions, department meetings, watch a teacher plan a lesson from scratch and help with making the resources, supervise a detention and all the things they don’t show you before you become a teacher. Before teaching in secondary schools, I taught English as a foreign language abroad and I loved it because the classes were small and well motivated and a mix of kids and adults. There was little scrutiny and it was all supportive, no unnecessary paperwork… but it didn’t pay enough to live off hence going into secondary teaching. I’m doing my best because I’m aware a lot has been invested in my training and I teach a very niche subject for which there is a demand but I just don’t enjoy dealing with the constant apathy and negativity from pupils, the endless paperwork, boring CPD, constant re-planning of everything, nothing is ever good enough… I’m thinking of moving into something SEN related as I still believe in the power of education but I just need a better work life balance. I don’t have any hobbies anymore and I don’t look forward to going into work. I just feel meh about everything and if I’m already feeling like this in my second year, it’s not looking good for the long term.

I know exactly what you mean.

If I was thinking about teaching now, I'd probably aim for some kind of SEN teaching.

@Duracellbunnywannabe

Sounds like DD was in top sets with lovely other students. She needs to get into schools to find out the reality of classrooms while remembering only half of the work happens in the classroom.

I’ve left teaching and wouldn’t recommend it (long hours, pointless activities and toxic environment) but others love it.

This. I’ve taught for 15 years but I went into it with very rose coloured glasses due to my time at a girls grammar school in all the top sets. Wow was I in for a shock when I walked into a south London comp! 😂 in the end though I’ve actually enjoyed teaching the less able kids more, when I’ve been able to because often the way schools are run means the odds are stacked against you.

I also wouldn’t recommend Teach First tbh. I don’t think it adequately prepares people for the classroom … there’s a reason the PGCE is a year long and set out the way it in with a gradual build up into the classroom. My experience has also been that it often attracts the kind of people who think they’re super clever, from top unis who bounce in thinking this will be a piece of piss and then the classroom and quantity of teaching on their timetable (because it’s more than on the PGCE immediately they start) breaks them really quickly and they don’t have the right support from a uni or whatever.

@Celendine

Retired secondary teacher here, and really enjoying my time off...have steered my offspring away from it as I was a paid security guard in some schools.

“Paid security guard” OMG YES! 😂😂

My experience has also been that it often attracts the kind of people who think they’re super clever, from top unis who bounce in thinking this will be a piece of piss and then the classroom and quantity of teaching on their timetable (because it’s more than on the PGCE immediately they start) breaks them really quickly

Ahem. Teach First was my training route and I have been in the profession longer than you, thanks.

If she goes ahead and becomes a qualified teacher, there are plenty of options to teach overseas, often (but not always) with higher pay and/or disposable income and a better work/life balance.

Good for you, but I’ve seen it break quite a few people. I didn’t say all. I just think it’s not worth the risk if you can afford to take the year.