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AIBU?

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Original poster

Awful idea to go into teaching?

126 replies

PrintingPatterns · 30/03/2022 19:39

DD is in university and is beginning to think about career options.

Originally she was considering a law conversion. Now she isn't so sure and is rethinking. She is at Bristol reading History and is doing well in her degree so far.

The other day she asked me for some advice and told me that she is considering going into teaching as she has suddenly had a realisation that a city type career might not be for her.

DD is in two minds as on one hand going into law and ideally going into a corporate job like DH's appeals to her but on the other hand she isn't sure that she wants to do something which may be interesting but not as rewarding or inspirational as working with people. She is now looking into teaching and is thinking about something like Teach First and perhaps working in a secondary school.

The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated. However, it really appeals to her as she loves to explain concepts to people and had a brilliant time at school due to some really inspirational teachers she had.

Does anyone have any advice? I am really not too sure what to suggest as it has been a while since I have worked full time and don't know too much about teaching.

Mainly aimed at teachers on here. Just wondering if any of you would recommend?

OP posts:
ThanksItHasPockets · 30/03/2022 22:28

It's unpopular with MN teachers but I did Teach First, loved it, and am still in the profession eighteen years later. Your DD should be warned however that History is not a shortage subject and TF only take a very small number of historians every year. If she has A levels in shortage subjects they will push her to train to teach in these subjects.

sevencontinents · 30/03/2022 22:32

I am a teacher and am married to a teacher. We will be strongly dissuading our children from being teachers. There are other similarly rewarding careers that would treat them much better. It is vocation but in this country, it is not a happy job at all and both of us can tell you that the vast majority of teachers feel undervalued, underpaid and maltreated. Steer her away OP! Sorry!

ThanksItHasPockets · 30/03/2022 22:32

PS don't ever let her repeat that 'waste' comment to anyone else. It is really insulting. FWIW I have an excellent degree from Oxford and make much more direct use of its content than most of my contemporaries.

dipdye · 30/03/2022 22:37

Does she realise that the school she needs up in could be very different to the one she attended as a child?

She could go from middle England to rough dog-eat-dog comp? Does she have exposure to different mentalities?

Seenoevil1 · 30/03/2022 22:39

Just left English teaching after 20 years - and exhausted! The actual teaching part is ok & sometimes very enjoyable but the admin, pressure, unrealistic target setting, management issues etc have got worse over past ten years make me say: urge her not to go into teaching but if she is really keen do some work experience in a few different History departments to see it up close. Good luck.

MrsR87 · 30/03/2022 22:42

11 years into teaching here and if I had my time again I would not do it. I love the kids and the actual teaching bit but I miss the days when I had time to sit and spend a good amount of time planning inspirational lessons with creative resources. The planning and teaching seem such a small part of my job now as there is so much paperwork, assessment
and the marking. My school now make us assess the pupils either two or three times a half term which creates a crazy amount of marking when you have ten classes!
Before I had my own child a couple of years ago I would regularly turn down invitations at weekends as I had so much marking and paperwork to do and I would spend a long time locked in the study when I was at home. Lockdown helped me understand how toxic this is and of course having a toddler means this is not attainable. It’s a shame as I love the bits of the job I came in for but it’s been destroyed by interference from the government and others, many of whom have never worked in a school. Am currently working on an exit strategy!

Whatinthelord · 30/03/2022 22:46

Every teacher I know has either left teaching or wants to.
Every teacher I know works ridiculously unmanageable hours in term time.

No, personally I’d encourage my daughter to look at other careers. Her choice at the end of the day though. Maybe some work experience in a school would help. Personally I hated working in a school environment.

WalltoWallBtards · 30/03/2022 22:49

‘The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated.’

No. With that attitude she should not be a teacher. We need teachers who want to do their degree then choose PGCE to teach because they want to, it’s a vocation. TeachFirst is rubbish, not the route to being a good teacher.

Tiredtiredtired100 · 30/03/2022 22:58

The pay for teaching isn’t bad if you’re not in an extortionate part of the country. I’m in the midlands and you could buy a small house/flat in a lot of nice areas on the starting wage. I own my fairly large home in a naice area and get by alright even as a lone parent with childcare costs, so I don’t consider it bad pay. As a teacher in London or other expensive cities (like Bristol) though, you really do have to be up the payscale and with a partner to afford to buy a house and the wages don’t stretch far.

Personally, I did the same as your daughter and ended up loving it. I’m still teaching more than a decade later and no shoddy Tory governance is going to force me out of it.

JocastaElastic · 30/03/2022 23:01

If your daughter thinks she'd like to teach, rather than working in a school, how about working in museum or heritage learning instead? She could complete her history degree then do a post-grad in museum studies or heritage education.
Teaching in museums is great because it doesn't involve assessing pupils or marking homework; you don't have to take work home with you, and you tend to see children at their best because they're on a school trip so they're happy to be out of school for the day.

ThanksItHasPockets · 30/03/2022 23:09

@WalltoWallBtards

‘The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated.’

No. With that attitude she should not be a teacher. We need teachers who want to do their degree then choose PGCE to teach because they want to, it’s a vocation. TeachFirst is rubbish, not the route to being a good teacher.

Teach First is a PGDE training route.
UniCred1 · 30/03/2022 23:15

I left teaching after 3 years. If only I did my research beforehand! I used to be judged "outstanding" at every observation. I LOVED being with the kids. But that's not what teaching was about. There's so much unnecessary relentless crap to do every day. I will never encourage anyone that I care about to go near teaching. My older colleagues were all telling me that I've done the right thing by not wasting so much of my life in such a thankless profession.

42isthemeaning · 30/03/2022 23:16

@Fairislefandango

I'm a teacher in a very good independent school. It's great

Oh yes, totally different kettle of fish! I taught in a wonderful girls' day school for years. It was like a completely different job. Basically, think of all the things which make being a teacher difficult or unpleasant - not a single one of them applied to working in that school. God I wish I still worked there!

Believe me that's not the same in every independent school, especially the smaller ones. The workload and expectations are far higher than state schools I taught in and the pay was much lower with no pay rises for a few years. We were also taken out of the teachers' pension scheme. Sad
raspberryjamchicken · 30/03/2022 23:27

I became a teacher for the same reasons - wanting to do something worthwhile. I have a First from a good university and had originally planned to go into Civil Service or something but wanted to do something more meaningful.

I wouldn't advise going into teaching now - it is such an over-scrutinised job and extending the qualifying period to two years instead of one is off-putting. There is a lot of pressure on teachers from the get go. All the young teachers I've met in the last few years have moved on to something different within three or four years.

Having said that, I would personally still be a teacher over a lawyer! I worked in a corporate law firm for a while pre-teaching and it was that which made me realise I wanted to do something more meaningful. I do have some lawyer friends and although the pay is high the hours are very long and not family-friendly. At least with teaching you can spend holidays with your kids.

santapaws12 · 30/03/2022 23:30

If she likes explaining things I would recommend she goes into academia and focuses on the teaching side. Maybe get a job in an FE College.

I wouldn't really recommend classroom teaching to anyone who wasn’t utterly born to it.

sydenhamhiller · 30/03/2022 23:32

I’m 49 and in second year of teaching (PGCE 20 years ago and NQT year last year).

I am waiting for dc3 to finish primary school (4 terms to go) or win the lottery, and then will do something else.

I am good with kids. I am very firm but fair. (In a tough London primary.) I enjoy the kids a lot - I don’t like the constant need to ‘evidence learning’ over any actual meaningful learning. The data, the stress of learning walks, mocksteds, SATS - SATs!! For 6 and 7 year olds who have missed a massive chunk for formal schooling… The way everyone thinks they could do your job, and do it better because you’re just a teacher.

My oldest teens see the hours/ stress/ relatively poor pay per hour and lack of respect for the role in British society (I taught in Japan for 2 years) and would never consider it, and I would never recommend it.

Tell your daughter to do something else. Teacher retention is terrible, if she changes her mind in a couple years there will always be teaching jobs.

LethargeMarg · 31/03/2022 07:51

I think the pay is actually pretty good compared with a lot of graduates. I was earning peanuts in admin jobs and call centres after uni before I went into teaching and it was good money and my husband earns a lot (£50,000) as a deputy head, we have a lot of teacher friends as well and they are relatively high earners compared to me now in the nhs . Very stressful though but I think history is a good subject to teach.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 31/03/2022 08:12

I was ecstatic to get ill health retirement last year.

My colleagues were so envious.

It’s that kind of job. You’re happy to be ill as it gets you out. How twisted is that?

42isthemeaning · 31/03/2022 08:20

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I was ecstatic to get ill health retirement last year.

My colleagues were so envious.

It’s that kind of job. You’re happy to be ill as it gets you out. How twisted is that?

That's very sad, but I can believe it. Sometimes the stress has been so bad that I and my colleagues have wished for our covid tests to come back positive. That said we still had to plan lessons and teach online when we were off with covid. The last few years have really opened my eyes to how little teachers are valued.
PurpleFlower1983 · 31/03/2022 08:26

My friend got a first from Cambridge in Natural Sciences and went on to be a secondary teacher, I saw that as a waste. A history degree from Bristol, not so much although she may find a job as a history teacher in a decent school hard to come by. Were any of her A-levels in maths or science?

KatherineofGaunt · 31/03/2022 08:26

I'm in UPS3 and my wage is only £5k more than a UPS3 teacher 13 years ago (when I started). I can now earn no more unless I go into leadership. I was managed out of my last school for being too expensive.

So the pay seems good until you hit a roof that doesn't get any higher, through pay increments or inflation.

OP, if your daughter isn't totally passionate about teaching then she will find it hard. And I agree with others that it's really only about 5-10% explaining things to kids.

TallPinkGiraffe · 31/03/2022 08:41

I did Teach First back in the day and was in a similar situation to your DD. My thoughts now 15 years on...

Pros

  • holidays- early on great for topping up with tutoring while having a real break, opportunity to travel, really good for mental health, now got DC they make childcare easier and I get weeks of quality time to make up for term time. No other job gives you around 15 weeks off a year.
  • rewarding
  • learn a lot about the real world- especially going into the schools teach first work with. I feel a lot more wise about the realities of our country than other friends.
  • progression opportunities are very good
  • scope to specialise- can take it a few ways whether it's loving the academic side, research attending conferences, pastoral work linking up with social workers and families, going into SEN or alternative education provision
  • option to move to different school types, I eventually went private and it gave me a much better work life balance and better conditions and pay
  • easy to work abroad in international schools

Cons

  • pay compared to city jobs is not great. Saying that if you are tactical you can find well paid jobs eg at one point the London independent I was at just before having DC was paying me £50k as a head of department. I also topped it up with tutoring.
  • first few years are gruelling and extremely tough, teacher training is incredibly full on and mentally tough
  • behaviour in some schools can make you feel unsafe and hopeless. If the systems aren't strong, however good your behaviour management, you are on an uphill battle.
  • if you DD had friends all in the city she may feel a bit out of it, that said people find teaching fascinating and always have lots of questions.
  • once you have children childcare in term time takes careful planning as early mornings and unpredictable end times due to parent meetings, events, workload
  • some private schools are struggling financially so while they used to be - and some still are- offering more pay and better conditions, that isn't always true

Good luck to your DD with the decision!

I also know lots who did Teach First or PGCEs and taught for a few years, enjoyed parts of it, disliked others and so then went into the city. They gained a lot from the experience anyway.

PurpleDaisies · 31/03/2022 08:41

My friend got a first from Cambridge in Natural Sciences and went on to be a secondary teacher, I saw that as a waste.

Why? We’re desperately short of science teachers. If your daughter is good at teaching as well as academically bright, I’m sure she’s in hugely in demand as a teacher and an asset to her school.

I’m so fed up about this attitude that clever people shouldn’t waste their talents teaching.

ThanksItHasPockets · 31/03/2022 08:52

@PurpleFlower1983

My friend got a first from Cambridge in Natural Sciences and went on to be a secondary teacher, I saw that as a waste. A history degree from Bristol, not so much although she may find a job as a history teacher in a decent school hard to come by. Were any of her A-levels in maths or science?
I hope you haven’t shared this insulting and ignorant view with them.

I bet you wouldn’t have felt the same if your friend had got into mountains of debt doing a PhD and was now scraping by on a postdoc research salary, on a series of fixed-term contracts with no job security and with an untenable undergraduate teaching load. I have several Oxford contemporaries in this position who are now desperate to get out of academia and considering school teaching. We’ll be thrilled to have them and it will not be a ‘waste’.

The British view of the teaching profession is absolutely shameful.

Thewindwhispers · 31/03/2022 08:56

If she has good grades but wants something more fulfilling than law, maybe look at civil service fast stream and think tanks, political science type stuff.

I did law and would recommend it as a start to anyone.

Teaching I can’t comment but SIL did complain that the hardest thing is every year repeats like groundhog day and it’s hard to progress.