Awful idea to go into teaching?

[PrintingPatterns]

DD is in university and is beginning to think about career options.

Originally she was considering a law conversion. Now she isn't so sure and is rethinking. She is at Bristol reading History and is doing well in her degree so far.

The other day she asked me for some advice and told me that she is considering going into teaching as she has suddenly had a realisation that a city type career might not be for her.

DD is in two minds as on one hand going into law and ideally going into a corporate job like DH's appeals to her but on the other hand she isn't sure that she wants to do something which may be interesting but not as rewarding or inspirational as working with people. She is now looking into teaching and is thinking about something like Teach First and perhaps working in a secondary school.

The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated. However, it really appeals to her as she loves to explain concepts to people and had a brilliant time at school due to some really inspirational teachers she had.

Does anyone have any advice? I am really not too sure what to suggest as it has been a while since I have worked full time and don't know too much about teaching.

Mainly aimed at teachers on here. Just wondering if any of you would recommend?

TallPinkGiraffe, yoh haven’t mentioned the toxic mamangement especially in MATS in your ‘cons’ section.Not the pressure of observations or accountability. Not the bullying and complete disregard for people as humans, or the ageism and drive to have all SLT under 30. Not the micromanaging, and constant feeling that you are doing everything wrong, no matter how hard you try.

@WhiteWriting

Secondary school teacher here, 20 years experience. I would not recommend teaching as a career currently - endless govt meddling, top down micromanagement, mountains of paperwork, increasingly unworkable demands from SLT, new initiatives that take you away from the business of teaching, lack of autonomy, real terms wage freeze, having to go part-time just to 'slim down' to a 60 hour week, your accountability for pupil progress rather than the actual pupils themselves, Covid catch-up piling on the pressure, everyone having a (usually negative) opinion of teachers..I could go on. Counsel her against it!

All. Of. This. I wouldn’t recommend the job I do (secondary 2nd in dept. & previously head of yr and head of dept) to anyone I liked. Working now at 80% to survive, rather than thrive and I’ve asked my kids not to go into teaching - they’ve assured me that they’ve no intention as ‘they can see it’s really bad’. I’m so sad because on a good day, there’s really nothing better, but there are not enough of those.

NQT year - never been as busy or as stressed - but a supportive dept head who believes in autonomy, trusts your judgement, lets you revert to textbook/film/reading lessons for each class once a week (secondary English) to juggle workload....as well as a robust sense of humour as a department, sharing resources, working collaboratively and communicating means that my day to day is manageable.

I should add that I'm 41 and worked in offices for years - and hated it. I finally feel I'm in the right career - I can be creative, I love the kids (even the troublemakers) and my colleagues and, at times, I have never laughed so much.

But it is not easy. It is exhausting. I have kids myself and I get home and sleep for an hour every day. Luckily they are old enough to fend for themselves (snacks, tv) and my husband works from home so ferries the kids to and from school as well as activities. And I live a 10 min walk from the school and have: a cleaner, a dog walker, a tutor to help with homework as I am so shattered and rely on ready meals throughout the week. Zero social life other than the odd weekend - even then I'm done in after Ant and Dec and a glass of wine.

I feel guilty that I'm not "there" for my kids in term time really. But have the support of my husband. If I didn't have all the above factors I wouldn't consider it.

It is definitely a vocation and in the right school you will be valued - and then it is the best job ever. I wanted to teach for years but circumstances were tricky (money, location, kids). I never, ever, thought it was "beneath" me. I have a Masters degree in English as well as two postgrads. It doesn't sound like the right career for her.

Please remember that MN has quite a lot of former teachers with time on their hands to post prolifically on teaching threads. I don’t personally find them to be representative of myself or my colleagues.

It is underpaid and underappreciated. Only go into it if you have a passion for it and can put up with and even like, bloody minded mouthy teenagers.

Personally I love teaching. It is very hard work though and there is a lot of pressure. Law I think would probably very stressful too but better financially. I wouldn't recommend teach first though. Seems a bit sink or swim to me.

I don't think teaching is underpaid. I know teachers who are well paid, have nice houses, support their families and have nice lives. If you read MN stories, they are all working 23 hours a day 7 days a week with Xmas day off for a pittance. Reality is very different.

Obviously if she's grown up in a household where a city/high end corporate salary is the norm, her parameters will be skewed.

I agree with PP's who suggest some time "observing" in school; the reality check can be a great shock.
I once agreed to have a young lady on three week's work experience, with a particular interest in teaching music. She herself had a very positive experience of her own schooldays, and she had a lot to offer.
As far as I was concerned, the three weeks passed very happily. She was a great success with the children, and went so far as to begin delivering whole-class lessons in my (discreet) presence.
But she was a canny young lady, and observed all the other aspects of a working week at school, and when her time was up, she admitted that she had decided that it was not for her!
I was full of apologies to her supervising teacher - had we failed to support her in some way? But he reassured me that he felt it was better for her in the long run to realise that it was not for her after a short time, than have the realisation dawn during a longer training period or probationary year!

People get offended by this but it is okay to not want to go into something you think is poorly paid and poorly respected. The sad thing is the working conditions could be better if we are a society placed value on it. Not to mention that some schools have a very bullying culture amongst staff.

@FarDownTheRiver

People get offended by this but it is okay to not want to go into something you think is poorly paid and poorly respected. The sad thing is the working conditions could be better if we are a society placed value on it. Not to mention that some schools have a very bullying culture amongst staff.

For me personally that’s not the offensive part. It’s more that it’s a very telling indication of how the profession is viewed to suggest that excellent academic qualifications might be ‘wasted’ in an academic profession. A pp mentioned academia which is much more prestigious, but the reality is absolutely awful at the moment and I also have several friends looking to get out (and considering teaching!).

@santapaws12

If she likes explaining things I would recommend she goes into academia and focuses on the teaching side. Maybe get a job in an FE College.

I wouldn't really recommend classroom teaching to anyone who wasn’t utterly born to it.

I second academia or FE. You get all the good bits of teaching, but with much less paperwork and no classroom/behaviour management.

Can speak from personal experience on this - I sounded very much like your DD at her age (about 10 years ago). I did Teach First in a very difficult school in London, got through it just about and managed one more year teaching afterwards in another (not difficult) school before having a complete mental breakdown and leaving the profession.

However, I have been able to use my teaching experience and qualifications a great deal and have finally, years later after faffing around in boring office jobs, found a wonderful place in my career - I do a combination of youth work, outdoor education, private tutporing and educational workshop delivery. Partly PT employed, partly self-employed. It's absolutely wonderful - I loved teaching, but couldn't cope with the stress and workload, this was I get to do loads of 'teaching outside the classroom' in different settings, with virtually zero stress. BUT I wouldn't have got this work without my initial teacher training and qualifications.

So, even though Teach First was the absolute worst time of my life (seriously difficult), I actually would still advise her to go for it BUT she needs to first go and spend as much time as possible in tough schools. If her school wasn't an inner-city comprehensive with very high staff turnover, she needs to go get some observational/assisting experience first (in fact 1-2 weeks observation in a school different to your own one is a prerequisite for acceptance on TF).

TF is reasonably supportive, although unless its changed a lot since I did it, there is complete normalisation of severe stress, underpreparedness and frankly MH crises. But it is a good way to give teaching a go and to see if you can 'hack it'.

If she is absolutely convinced by education as a long term career, I would strongly advise she tries a different route: a PGCE at an education faculty of a University is far costlier but much more thorough and trainees are prepared at a much more reasonable pace. I got a PGCE from Teach First but with about 1/20th of the formal teaching time, and I was expected to teach a 80% timetable from literally Day 1, whereas PGCE placements build you up slowly (teaching the starter 1 week, a bit more next, before taking on full classes).

Hope thats in someway helpful! Good luck to her

@WalltoWallBtards

‘The issue is that she isn't sure if it would be a 'waste' (her words, not mine!) of her hard work at A level to get into a really good university, only to do something which is underpaid and under appreciated.’

No. With that attitude she should not be a teacher. We need teachers who want to do their degree then choose PGCE to teach because they want to, it’s a vocation. TeachFirst is rubbish, not the route to being a good teacher.

@WalltoWallBtards

I couldn't disagree more. I don't think you know what Teach First is. It's a PGDE qualification. I'm a career changer in my 40s and I found TF to be an excellent route into teaching for me, and others, who want to teach. Combining full-time teaching with a PGDE is no small task and without being committed you wouldn't be able to do it. Your post is actually quite offensive.

I think Teach First would be a good option for your daughter, OP, but she needs to get over any 'I'm too good for teaching' nonsense. If she then decides it's not for her, she can pursue something else.

@CocoLoco123 and @santapaws12
Do you know anyone working in humanities academia in the first 10-15 years of their career? The several of my acquaintance would not recommend it.

What kind of school did she go to? A friend of mine at university had been to a lovely private girls school and had great memories of it. She was keen to be a teacher (and I think would have been really good at it) but then she volunteered at a couple of the local comprehensives which were pretty rough and that put her off!

I went to a mediocre comp and I wouldn't really want to work in one myself to be honest, it's not the actual teaching it's the behaviour management which would grind me down.

I don't know - if she's going into a career already feeling she will be under paid and under appreciated, that doesn't sound like a great start.

Genuinely talented/ skilled teachers who are good at the job do not always feel that way.

Of course there are frustrations in any job but it sounds like she is very hung up on the possible downsides of teaching.

If that's the case, she might be setting herself up to fail or be dissatisfied, and could be better doing something else.

[quote ThanksItHasPockets]**@CocoLoco123* and @santapaws12*
Do you know anyone working in humanities academia in the first 10-15 years of their career? The several of my acquaintance would not recommend it.[/quote]
Well, no. Plenty in social sciences but not humanities.

I know it’s full of egomaniacs, particularly the research side of things, having done a phd myself not long ago I am only too aware of the stress and narcissism that can lurk there, but I was under the impression that if you’re happy to keep your head down and focus on the teaching elements it’s a pretty nice career? Perhaps I’m wrong?

@santapaws12

If she likes explaining things I would recommend she goes into academia and focuses on the teaching side. Maybe get a job in an FE College.

I wouldn't really recommend classroom teaching to anyone who wasn’t utterly born to it.

Ha. I sent this thread to an academic friend of mine. She is unusually lucky having secured a chair in history at an Oxbridge college but she is very openly reluctant to encourage the PhD students whom she supervises into academia. Permanent contracts are like hens' teeth and there is little job security in endless fixed-term contracts. Funding follows the newest shiniest fields of study. Their pensions have been recently raided and decimated.

Academia is not the prestigious destination it used to be. Meanwhile FE funding was cut to the bone during austerity so that the government could claim that it had ring fenced spending on schools. But sure, anything's better than 'wasting' your academic qualifications by teaching those ghastly teenagers

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I was ecstatic to get ill health retirement last year.

My colleagues were so envious.

It’s that kind of job. You’re happy to be ill as it gets you out. How twisted is that?

I grew up in a community of teachers. Not one retired due to age. Every single one went on Ill health.

I’ve been thinking about it as a career change though. But I do recognise that one reason I think I could try it is that I’ve already earned enough to be able to walk away.

@santapaws12 if they have been fortunate enough to find a permanent contract then I'm sure they're grand (unless they've recently been on the UCU pensions strike?). That's not the reality for most postdocs.

It’s hard to get ill health retirement now!

I moved from the corporate world to teaching and also loved it. However you will find all teachers go on about what a difficult job it is. I learnt to shut up but they have no idea how much harder it is in industry.

Every Monday in my industry job, I would have a meeting with my manager and I would have to explain and justify everything I had done that week. Salary increases and promotions were dependent on your appraisal.

Seriously compared with working as a lawyer with 16 hour days, there is no comparison. I also worked out in teaching you are a never more than 6 weeks from the next holiday.

It’s also not badly paid compared to many other jobs.

I moved from corporate into teaching.

Corporate was much less stressful

I too moved from corporate to teaching. Teaching is far more stressful, you are held far more accountable for far more and you don't get overtime.

I have told my teens to never even consider it. Not that they would. And the sad thing is that I really did love it before it got ground down and ruined and academised to pieces.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I moved from corporate into teaching.

Corporate was much less stressful

Why didn't you go back?