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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think girls are being treated unfairly?

121 replies

glassankles · 30/03/2022 16:03

I am not a mother, but my younger sister has made me aware of an issue in her class that's upsetting her and by extension me.

My sister is 11 years old and is in 5th class (UK year 6). For some time now her male classmates have been taken out of class to receive extra maths lessons by another teacher. These lessons focus on more advanced topics such as algebra and geometry, while the girls are instructed to read books. When the teacher enters the classroom apparently she calls for the "buachailli" to go with her which is the Irish word for boys. This is in addition to the maths the whole class does.

My sister is a bit irritated at this because she wants to study maths at higher level in secondary school and feels she is now at a bit of a disadvantage. There is no plan to give the girls the same extra tuition that the boys are getting. AIBU to think this is ridiculous and to politely take it up with the school?

OP posts:

dipdye · 30/03/2022 17:53

Absolutely not on.

The girls need to be in there... Reading my eye

EnzoArzo · 30/03/2022 17:59

[quote irishfarmer]@EnzoArzo did she go above the maths teachers head to the principal? That is a complete disgrace!!![/quote]
No. She didn’t end up doing it as wasn’t allowed but is now a successful actuary.

ldontWanna · 30/03/2022 18:07

@Awalkintime

All schools have been given money for interventions. All children are entitled to this. Usually schools group according to a range of means - all the kids on pupil premium, ability, gaps in learning. Some are doing it on rotation a group each term, some are doing 1-2-1, some are employing additional teachers.

Given not all the boys have been taken out this debunks the theory that is it a sex based split. Also algebra and geometry is not more advanced maths, kids in reception do algebra it is all on the curriculum in every year group. Given most schools have focused on the basics 'the bare bones' during lockdown there will be gaps in geometry etc that was not a key learning focus. I would assume the kids have gaps.

16 out of 18 were out. Whatever group they belong to was there not even 1 girl to match?

Tbh I'd be very curious to know the pupil profile of the two boys left behind. I bet there's some discrimination at work there too.

Awalkintime · 30/03/2022 18:30

ldontWanna
Nothing to do with sex then if 2 are left out and no sometimes there isn't a girl to match at all. That is life. What other groups are being taken out for other things? If it is all a male/female split for every other intervention then it would be an issue. If the other interventions are a mix then this really is someone making an issue when there isn't one and when all they need to do is basically ask a simple question. Not rocket science to find out the answer.

CaptSkippy · 30/03/2022 18:56

Can your sister not go to a different school? If she is purposely excluded from classes on the count of her sex than what hope has she got when preparing for a higher education at that school?

ldontWanna · 30/03/2022 19:18

@Awalkintime

ldontWanna Nothing to do with sex then if 2 are left out and no sometimes there isn't a girl to match at all. That is life. What other groups are being taken out for other things? If it is all a male/female split for every other intervention then it would be an issue. If the other interventions are a mix then this really is someone making an issue when there isn't one and when all they need to do is basically ask a simple question. Not rocket science to find out the answer.

It can definitely be sex, and then some other form of discrimination for the two boys. No idea if it's the case or not, but it's possible(and quite likely) and pretending otherwise is just silly.

In all my years in a school I have never seen a class when the majority of the boys was either very able or very behind(or whatever other criteria) and all the girls were just average.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/03/2022 19:20

Is the help based on ability. Perhaps your niece doesn’t need assistance?

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/03/2022 19:22

Ah, sorry. Reading, sounds to me like the high achievers are being taken out.

FairyCakeWings · 30/03/2022 19:29

How many children in the class? Is there a fairly even split between girls and boys, or is it an especially boy heavy class?

ChateauMargaux · 30/03/2022 19:32

If 100% of those assessed as being suitable for accelerated maths support are male then there is a problem and it should be investigated. It is statistically unlikely that not one female in the class has the same potential as those 16 males.

If that is the case then those females have been let down during their time at the school and that deserves intervention before they go to secondary school... in fact the underperformance of the girls in that case deserves more focus than the high potential of the boys.

NdefH81 · 30/03/2022 20:22

Yeah sure
Imagine the conversation between the (likely) female primary teacher and (almost certainly my) female TAs

“Shall we disadvantage every single girl in the class by giving 16/18 of the boys extra teaching to really make them steam ahead?”

As I say… don’t be daft.

Awalkintime · 30/03/2022 21:09

ldontWanna*
In my school we have year group R = 2 girls vs the rest boys. Year group 2 = 1 boy vs the rest girls. Year 6 = all girls.

So in my class (EYFS), the girls are MA, the boys are either HA or LA. So the LA boys that get boosted should include the girls who above that level? I should include them just to make sure that the sex ratio is fair despite it not being of any benefit to them?

Also in my class (Y2), all the girls are HA and are on track to get the highest GD % I've ever had.The boy is SEN and way below. The kids get offered boosters in the morning, the boy does not come. Therefore all my boosting kids are girls. Is this wrong? Should I cancel because the boy does not come?

The boy gets intervention with boys in EYFS so should I open this up to girls to make it and even split of boys and girls even if they won't benefit?

All mine happen to be a boy/girl split this year due to ability. Next year might be different. Last year certainly was. It isn't the first time it has happened. I base mine on the needs of the children it would be shocking to offer a mixed group when some would not learn anything just so to tick a box that it is a mixed boy/girl group.

eggandonion · 30/03/2022 21:31

@Awalkintime can you explain that in ordinary language?
Im long past primary level, I have two daughters with STEM degrees, both went to local community school where all subjects were available to everyone. This was stressed at open days.

FoodieToo · 30/03/2022 21:37

I'm a teacher in Dublin and there is no way this is happening as you say .

IF kids are taken out for 'stretching' in maths it will be based on the standardised test results. In my kids' school this meant they scored on the 98th or 99th percentile in the end of year assessment.

By all means have your sister ask the school but I frankly find it embarrassing that you would post something like this about the Irish education system without knowing the full facts / having your sister question the situation.

Awalkintime · 30/03/2022 21:54

[quote eggandonion]@Awalkintime can you explain that in ordinary language?
Im long past primary level, I have two daughters with STEM degrees, both went to local community school where all subjects were available to everyone. This was stressed at open days.[/quote]
All subjects are available to all. Intervention is based on needs. Not quite sure what point you are making there but it seems like nothing to do with my post.

I have a cohort of EYFS apart from 2 girls meaning all my intervention that are for those working below are just for boys as the girls are not in that category. The girls are on track so any support for them does not include the boys as they are not working at their level either.

I have a cohort of Y2 who are all girls apart from 1 boy. I offer intervention for all but the boy does not attend which as a result makes it an all girl group. So in a nutshell my interventions have ended up as groups that are boys or girls as it is how the cohorts are this time. It is not a choice to make it that way based on sex but down to the gaps in learning and the needs of the children.

If some 7 year old went home complaining there was no girls in one booster group I'd expect the family to come and ask instead of making it a drama on the internet when it is easily explained.

eggandonion · 30/03/2022 22:07

I wasn't meaning to be rude, @Awalkintime, but the abbreviations don't mean much to me, I am like op, in Ireland.
Re the secondary school, some schools near us are smaller and don't offer a good range of subjects. Girls can miss out on technological subjects in particular. If ops sister is keen on maths, her parents should look out for subjects like tech graphics at secondary.

eggandonion · 30/03/2022 22:09

The child is 11, not 7.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 30/03/2022 22:17

[quote glassankles]@worriedatthistime

It's 16 out of 18 boys in the class getting the extra lessons.[/quote]
Which suggests to me that it is due to an educational need. The school have a responsibility to cater for students who have been assessed as having additional needs, whether it is because they need to be stretched or they need help to keep up.

That said, I find it a bit odd that none of the girls have the same need. I would suggest one of your parents asks about it at the parent teacher meeting or just has a chat with the teacher if they do collections.

Ohnonevermind · 30/03/2022 22:22

I’m a Dubliner living in Kerry, having been educated in a really good single sex school, I’ve also noticed gender bias in my children’s mixed sex school. In many of the girls schools down here, honours Maths wasn’t even offered as an option.

I’ve asked why the boys are brought out on movement breaks whole the girls are left in the classroom. (I’ve observed this with my own eyes when collecting my children) as studies have shown that all children benefit.

My daughters teacher sits a girl next to a boy in each row, it seems to police the boys behaviour. My daughter would rather an all girls school

Awalkintime · 30/03/2022 22:23

@eggandonion

The child is 11, not 7.

I read that bit but the kids in my class are 7 hence why I said if a 7 year old.

eggandonion · 30/03/2022 22:24

Primary parent teacher meetings are usually before Christmas though, and teachers at the school my kids went to weren't around at home time.
It does sound unusual. But the parents need to ask, not the sister, I imagine.

ChateauMargaux · 30/03/2022 22:29

Gender bias happens... whether you think it does or not. There is something amiss in what the OP has described.. let's hope there is a valid reason... but let's not dismiss it without question.

CliffsofMohair · 30/03/2022 22:36

If it is happening as the OP says then that is problematic to say the least. I do wonder if there is a simple explanation like scholarship exam? Or all these kids missing input due to sports practice or matches in class time?
OP, your mum does really need to take it up with the principal.

Ohnonevermind · 31/03/2022 00:08

The usual approach is to firstly talk to the school teacher about it, then the principal. Failing that I’d have a look at the ethos of the school and it’s policy’s and contact the Board of management if the school is in breach of any of those.

eggandonion · 31/03/2022 00:28

@Ohnonenermind is it single sex schools which dont offer honours maths? All of my kids were taught honours maths by women, just as an aside.
I can't remember algebra being studied before first year secondary school, where it was explained as being like goals and points.

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