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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think girls are being treated unfairly?

121 replies

glassankles · 30/03/2022 16:03

I am not a mother, but my younger sister has made me aware of an issue in her class that's upsetting her and by extension me.

My sister is 11 years old and is in 5th class (UK year 6). For some time now her male classmates have been taken out of class to receive extra maths lessons by another teacher. These lessons focus on more advanced topics such as algebra and geometry, while the girls are instructed to read books. When the teacher enters the classroom apparently she calls for the "buachailli" to go with her which is the Irish word for boys. This is in addition to the maths the whole class does.

My sister is a bit irritated at this because she wants to study maths at higher level in secondary school and feels she is now at a bit of a disadvantage. There is no plan to give the girls the same extra tuition that the boys are getting. AIBU to think this is ridiculous and to politely take it up with the school?

OP posts:
CanIPleaseHaveOne · 30/03/2022 17:19

I would be in there double quick with quite a few polite questions floowed by insistance.

For what it is worth it happened in my dcs school when DC1 was 10 (abroad at the time). A group was taken out for extra, advanced, work. Parents who asked got included, parenst who did not ? Well...

Eightiesfan · 30/03/2022 17:20

I think you need some more information from the school. Both my children (in the UK) were taken out of lessons when they were in Year 6.

DS1 strength was maths and was hopeless at English and DS2 was the opposite, very well read and articulate but was still counting using his fingers!

So you would think that DS1 would get extra English and DS2 extra maths. Quite the opposite, the school was so fixated on the holy grail of getting a score of 6 they targeted the top students in the subjects they were good at and removed them from certain lessons to get extra tuition. The school did not tell me about any of this, I only found out when DS2 complained about the extra work, which is when DS1 piped up the same happened to him. Completely mad!

Original poster
glassankles · 30/03/2022 17:20

@EnzoArzo
No, we're in Cork, sorry about your friend, that's absolutely awful.

OP posts:
CanIPleaseHaveOne · 30/03/2022 17:22

*followed

Original poster
glassankles · 30/03/2022 17:22

@worriedatthistime

It's 16 out of 18 boys in the class getting the extra lessons.

OP posts:
eggandonion · 30/03/2022 17:22

A parent needs to check it out. Are there a lot of kids with English as a second language needing extra maths help, but with Irish exemption?
Does your sister want to do honours maths for the bonus points if they still exist in the new leaving cert?
It does sound strange!

ChateauMargaux · 30/03/2022 17:22

@nicholethejewellery.. your position on this is very strange and not based on any statistics I have ever seen. There is no justification for giving extra maths tuition to males only. Males far outnumber females in higher level studies in Maths, Physics and Computer Sciences.

@glassankles... that sounds very strange but not totally unusual that girls are overlooked when it comes to maths but I would really expect that someone would have pointed out the inequality. Often, the teaching of maths is aligned with male socialised behaviour thus overlooking females who are competent. Teachers unconsciously associate behaviours with ability and encourage boys to explore their boundaries in maths while letting girls get on with it quietly. Boys who are struggling with reading get lots of support but girls who are struggling with maths are not. Despite no differences at the age of 5, girls quickly come to believe that they are not as good at maths, though the testing shows otherwise. Girls are more likely to drop out of higher level maths despite outperforming some of the boys and by the time they get to the later years of secondary school they choose more traditionally female subjects. Little has changed in this in the last 30 years since I was at school. There are more women entering into the medical sciences which skews the overall numbers but computing, engineering and pure maths are still overwhelmingly male dominated. As a result much of the Internet based design is unconsciously male and males continue to dominate the spheres of finance and the stock market where the mega bucks of money, power and influence are wielded.

DomesticatedZombie · 30/03/2022 17:26

That sounds really odd. I'd definitely ask questions.

RoseslnTheHospital · 30/03/2022 17:27

It's not up to your 11 year old sister to talk this through with the teacher, it needs to be a parent or someone with responsibility for your sister. They could just send a quick email, if the school allows you to email teachers directly?

worriedatthistime · 30/03/2022 17:27

@glassankles thats quite a high amount though if it were maybe 6/7 . I can't believe no girl in the class is high up as well
I would def go and ask the question find out what its all about

Dentistlakes · 30/03/2022 17:28

Definitely ask the school about it. If it is for high achievers, then at least some of them should be girls. It could be there are girls in the group but from different classes?

If there are no girls in the group it sounds very odd indeed.

irishfarmer · 30/03/2022 17:29

@EnzoArzo did she go above the maths teachers head to the principal? That is a complete disgrace!!!

okayigetit · 30/03/2022 17:30

@Nicholethejewellery

Boys are usually behind girls (on average) in maths, so it makes sense to give them extra tuition. Either to catch up or to help them get ahead as the girls will naturally catch up over time. The aim will be to ensure that by the time they leave fulltime education, boys and girls are of as close to equal standard as possible.
Erm .. no
oviraptor21 · 30/03/2022 17:31

The aim will be to ensure that by the time they leave fulltime education, boys and girls are of as close to equal standard as possible.

That should not and cannot be the aim.

BlueOverYellow · 30/03/2022 17:31

[quote glassankles]@sauvignonblancplz

No, the lessons are more advanced and challenging content such as algebra and geometry in addition to their regular maths classes which are apparently focusing on long division.[/quote]
If this is true, I would be very vocally slating the school and demanding that this inequity be sorted immediately.

That 's just shocking and wrong.

okayigetit · 30/03/2022 17:32

@seadreams

I did extra maths classes when I was in 5th and 6th class and it was a mixed group. Is it all the boys in the class or just a group of them? If it's just a small group, them all being boys could just be a coincidence (unlikely) or is it all the boys in the class? If its all the boys then I would 100% complain. Its the kind of story that would do well on the radio too.
I agree with this, if it is all the boys then that is really bad, if it is some of the boys but only boys, then yeah it could be a coincidence (probs not though) but in this case I'd speak with the school, let them know your sisters desire to do further maths and see if she can be part of that group
secondaryquandries · 30/03/2022 17:32

Perhaps it's boys this term, girls the next. Otherwise it is shocking discrimination. You need to ask the school.

okayigetit · 30/03/2022 17:32

@Moonface123

In my experiance its for the higher achievers, this happened to my son, not sure if his group was mixed or not , l suppose its for whoever is achieving highest grades, but when he went up to secondary he literally spent the first year repeating what he' d already been taught in primary, it wasn't just maths it was for most subjects.
I found in school that the high achieves and low achievers got extra help and those in the middle (the majority) just got left to fend for themselves lol
NdefH81 · 30/03/2022 17:37

Oh so the daft

It will either be extra support
Or more advance

Nothing else.

NdefH81 · 30/03/2022 17:38

Oh don’t be so daft

ldontWanna · 30/03/2022 17:42

Have whomever is her guardian have a chat with the school/teacher and ask about the group. What is it for, how do the students get picked etc.

Once they have full details,if it's discrimination(and it sounds like it is because no matter the criteria,it's impossible to just be boys that qualify, unless there's only like 5 girls in the whole class)they can complain/challenge it.

ldontWanna · 30/03/2022 17:43

@NdefH81

Oh so the daft

It will either be extra support
Or more advance

Nothing else.

And every single girl in the class is just... average?
Mooster62 · 30/03/2022 17:43

@bravotango

Boys are usually behind girls (on average) in maths, so it makes sense to give them extra tuition. Either to catch up or to help them get ahead as the girls will naturally catch up over time.

Hmm

I would have been very cross if my son received extra help and my daughter didn't. The sex has nothing to do with it, it is all about parity!
stripeyflowers · 30/03/2022 17:46

I would have to ask the school about it. There may be more to than you know. It just seems far too blatant a discrimination to be one.

Awalkintime · 30/03/2022 17:48

All schools have been given money for interventions. All children are entitled to this. Usually schools group according to a range of means - all the kids on pupil premium, ability, gaps in learning. Some are doing it on rotation a group each term, some are doing 1-2-1, some are employing additional teachers.

Given not all the boys have been taken out this debunks the theory that is it a sex based split. Also algebra and geometry is not more advanced maths, kids in reception do algebra it is all on the curriculum in every year group. Given most schools have focused on the basics 'the bare bones' during lockdown there will be gaps in geometry etc that was not a key learning focus. I would assume the kids have gaps.