DD being asked to design a torture method for homework??

[milkysmum]

DD has been set her history homework for this week. She has to design a ' new Tudor Torture device'. Draw it, label it etc and explain why it would be more effective than previous know torture devices! AIBU that this is a bit unnecessary? They are year 8. Do they really need to be encouraged to think of new ways to torture people!?

What a cool project! I'd have loved this!

@pucelleauxblanchesmains

I think some of the reaction - and why I dislike a lot of Horrible Histories stuff - on here stems from an assumption, articulated or not, that people in the past weren't quite the same as us and therefore we can be voyeuristic and comedic about some of the really harrowing stuff they went through. Like many PPs have said, designing a new experiment for Dr Mengele or a way to kill Vietnamese children instantly registers as a horrifically inappropriate idea, but if the people being tortured weren't modern plenty of people on here lose sight of that.

I agree absolutely with this. I’ve read all the predictable comments about ‘the snowflake generation’ and ‘just a bit of fun’ and ‘my kids would love this’ and I can only wonder where the line is drawn. Is it just a time thing so that the victims become completely faceless? Maybe it needs to be more than 100 years in the past to be ‘a bit of fun’? Perhaps in 2045 it will be ‘fun’ and ‘creative’ to devise new torture methods for Mengeles’ victims.

I’d also be interested to see how creative the kids get. After doing some research they’ll possibly realise that torture very often involved (and involves) sexual violence - and sometimes violence, sexual or otherwise, against the victim’s children. It’ll be ‘fun’ to see if any of the kids incorporate that into their ideas. Can’t sanitise their experience after all!

My year 8 child would love this shes got a fantastic imagination.
If they are looking at Tudor History they are possibly learning about how awful they were and the various torture methods for very serious crimes such as boiling people,burnt at the steak,being pressed. This was how they dealt with criminals as there was no police then. I also expect they are discussing how barbaric this was and the ethics around it and why it was stopped eventally. Its important that they learn these things as why it is grusome it did happen. Its important for children to learn this and also how it became unacceptable and things changed over time.

Email the teacher directly. I have being teaching history for 25 years and wouldn't set homework like this in a fit! I have never know any of my colleagues to do so either.
It is appropriate to discuss and explain how brutal law and order was but this is totally unacceptable.

I am beginning to beleive that this is a test examining many posters are sociopath vs psychopath vs not reading the OPs post.

Interesting points by @Chasingaftermidnight and @pucelleauxblanchesmains.

Passage of time is definitely an element, but I think there also has to be a perception that the ones being victimised were somehow equal to their oppressors. While this certainly WASN'T the case in Tudor times, it tends to get glossed over.

So even though there was an overlap between Tudor times and the start of the American slave trade, you wouldn't see a similar exercise involving slaves, perhaps because the inequality between oppressor and oppressed is much more at the forefront.

It would be interesting to know exactly where people draw the line. For example, what would people think about kids devising different ways in which Roman gladiators could fight to the death? This automatically feels more 'iffy' to me than Tudor torture devices, but I can't pin down why that is.

This may have been intended by the teacher as a bit of fun, but I think it is not appropriate at all. Torture still occurs- waterboarding, white noise, rape in war....
I think the OP is right to be concerned and ought to query it with the school, perhaps anonymously if her daughter is worried about being singled out.

Or is this an April fool??

Its important for children to learn this and also how it became unacceptable and things changed over time

This is very naive.

Torture is still practised in many parts of the world. The UK is not above using it either.

www.amnesty.org.uk/what-was-uk-role-cia-torture-report#:~:text=A%20damning%20report%20from%20the,deeply%20the%20UK%20was%20involved

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Interesting points by *@Chasingaftermidnight and @pucelleauxblanchesmains*.

Passage of time is definitely an element, but I think there also has to be a perception that the ones being victimised were somehow equal to their oppressors. While this certainly WASN'T the case in Tudor times, it tends to get glossed over.

So even though there was an overlap between Tudor times and the start of the American slave trade, you wouldn't see a similar exercise involving slaves, perhaps because the inequality between oppressor and oppressed is much more at the forefront.

It would be interesting to know exactly where people draw the line. For example, what would people think about kids devising different ways in which Roman gladiators could fight to the death? This automatically feels more 'iffy' to me than Tudor torture devices, but I can't pin down why that is.

Speaking personally, I would be unhappy about any task where a child is asked to think about how to inflict physical and mental suffering on another human being, irrespective of the historical context. I try so hard to teach my children to regard other people (whether historical or not) as human beings with feelings like their own - so maybe I’m uptight but I feel devising methods of torture for a ‘bit of fun’ goes against that. I’m all for history teaching, but not in favour of imaginary cruelty to other humans. (Or animals, come to that.)

But I agree with you that the more interesting question is for those people who are ok with this exercise in the context of Tudor torture. For them, are there any contexts in which this exercise would be inappropriate? Where do they draw the line and why?

I think you’re right that imbalance of power between oppressor and victim plays a large part in how people feel about things. However, with your Roman gladiator example, I think it’s because that kind of violence is so utterly brutal and animalistic, whereas Tudor torture devices were so unbelievably vile that they don’t really seem real and almost seem darkly comical.

[quote ClaudineClare]Its important for children to learn this and also how it became unacceptable and things changed over time

This is very naive.

Torture is still practised in many parts of the world. The UK is not above using it either.

www.amnesty.org.uk/what-was-uk-role-cia-torture-report#:~:text=A%20damning%20report%20from%20the,deeply%20the%20UK%20was%20involved[/quote]
Thanks for that, Claudine I agree the poster you quoted is being naive.

I don't think it is important for children or anyone to be thinking up new ways of torture.

@Chasingaftermidnight I think you're right, there is an almost cartoonish element to it as well.

BTW OP, this one has been picked up by the Mirror, so if you do speak to the school you may be outing yourself.

I would personally refuse to do it and make an appointment with the head. I'm really into like dark humour and horror but that's too far for kids and really messed up.

It’s seems like a pointless activity which has no educational benefit. You could perhaps argue creativity but it’s a history lesson. Poorly thought out homework.

Refuse to do it and explain why to teacher,head of department,head of year and head teacher

Being the age a year 8 pupil is, I don't see an issue with this.
It's important to learn history, moralities and more. I very much doubt the intention is to bring out the little 'terroriser' in every child but I do think it will open up further discussion and learning. Although, the teacher could have said pick a historical torture device, research and write about it.
It's the sort of homework my teenagers actually would do.
Refusing to do it could have the opposite effect with your child amongst their peers.
Just my personal opinion though.

but I do think it will open up further discussion and learning

Learning what? How to really hurt others? Believe me , there are lots of kids who need no help with that.

Well, just told hubs the topic (he's a teacher in a high school). After taking some time to pick his jaw up off the floor, he suggests talking to the head of the school - there's no justification for the task and it's also morally questionable. I'm currently in uni studying history and even though we cover these aspects there is no way our professors would ask us to do this. Yes, they need to know that torture was used; they also need to know that it is wrong - not try to design a better version ffs.

I also feel for your dd OP - at her age I too would have felt that I had to do this, never mind how abhorent, to avoid negative consequences. And it is this element that makes me feel all the more strongly that you must complain.

@mrsdeedow

Being the age a year 8 pupil is, I don't see an issue with this. It's important to learn history, moralities and more. I very much doubt the intention is to bring out the little 'terroriser' in every child but I do think it will open up further discussion and learning. Although, the teacher could have said pick a historical torture device, research and write about it. It's the sort of homework my teenagers actually would do. Refusing to do it could have the opposite effect with your child amongst their peers. Just my personal opinion though.

They will learn about torture in history as we did, and will pick up that it still goes on all over the world. However being given a task to specifically design a new type of torture instrument is gross. They would have to work out which parts would hurt and what would cause the most pain without killing the person, etc. In other words, sadism. Sheesh, I can't believe anyone would consider that a good idea.

I think there will be many kids and parents who raise objections to this and the teacher who suggested it is way out of line.

I think there will be many kids and parents who raise objections to this and the teacher who suggested it is way out of line.

Absolutely correct!!!

Any updates op ?

I would be hitting the roof, I can't read about certain things because my mind goes to what it would feel like. This homework would give me nightmares and I'm 55.

Depending where you are in the country there may be a child in the class who has witnessed torture or whose parent has been tortured or, if that isn't bad enough, been tortured themselves.

Amnesty international do have resources on discussing torture in schools, but they are for 13+.

If she really HAS to do this then she could design a classroom where the teacher is explaining to children about torture methods and in the class is a child reliving their own experiences who then has to go home and design a torture device which s/he has to hide from his parents when are from Rwanda /Palestine / Saudi Arabia / Chile ...

What an absolutely horrible idea. Disgusting tbh.
Designing something that’s from the Tudor times is what makes it ‘removed’ enough to design and use it for learning purposes.

I notice there are no European countries on your list? You could add Ukraine? Or perhaps Germany?