DD being asked to design a torture method for homework??

[milkysmum]

DD has been set her history homework for this week. She has to design a ' new Tudor Torture device'. Draw it, label it etc and explain why it would be more effective than previous know torture devices! AIBU that this is a bit unnecessary? They are year 8. Do they really need to be encouraged to think of new ways to torture people!?

I’m so weirded out by how much we are sanitising kids’ experiences now, because I think it’ll really harm their ability to handle all of the shite on the web and in real life when they do explore it fully. There’s a lot of dark stuff out there…we need to trust them, or they’ll never be able to handle it.

This is just so ditsy. Perhaps you don’t have kids yet. Teenagers have at their fingertips - ultra violent films, violent video games, online porn, sex forums, if they’re familiar with the dark web they can order drugs or watch a beheading live. There are unprecedented numbers of teenagers with serious mental health issues - depression, anxiety, PTSD, self harm, OCD, EDs, gender dysphoria etc. There’s bullying, violence and gang everywhere in cities. 30 teens were stabbed to death in London in 2021 alone. On what fucking planet are kids’ experiences sanitised?

My friend’s year 6 daughter was asked to research crime rates in her local area using the police website. Brilliant, tells you where houses have been broken into and whether any violent and sexual attacks have taken place. Within your post code. Shocking.

@RobotValkyrie

This is seriously fucked up. Bear in mind that (statistically, given domestic abuse and bullying rates) some of the kids being asked to perform this task will have witnessed and/or experienced physical abuse, in their own house or elsewhere. And a smaller but very real proportion will be contemplating committing such acts themselves, perhaps even have done it already (the kind of messed up kids who torture small animals, and, given the opportunity, other kids)

The exercise completely trivialises tortures, and incites children to look at it through an amoral, desensitised lens.
This is extremely emotionally damaging for anyone who has suffered deliberate violence. And very dangerous for someone contemplating violence.
Completely irresponsible. I don't believe the pastoral care team and safeguarding lead would approve.

I totally agree.

Not to forget, as previously mentioned, the kids who for the last 20 years have been fleeing war and disaster zones and ending up in class rooms in the U.K.

If anyone thinks torture is fun then fuck off to the Ukraine and watch a bit of war rape or paramilitaries torture captured soldiers.

@RobotValkyrie

This is seriously fucked up. Bear in mind that (statistically, given domestic abuse and bullying rates) some of the kids being asked to perform this task will have witnessed and/or experienced physical abuse, in their own house or elsewhere. And a smaller but very real proportion will be contemplating committing such acts themselves, perhaps even have done it already (the kind of messed up kids who torture small animals, and, given the opportunity, other kids)

The exercise completely trivialises tortures, and incites children to look at it through an amoral, desensitised lens.
This is extremely emotionally damaging for anyone who has suffered deliberate violence. And very dangerous for someone contemplating violence.
Completely irresponsible. I don't believe the pastoral care team and safeguarding lead would approve.

This. Totally.

Dreadful. I’d be challenging the school or even going to the papers with it.
Why, when there are so many other things they could set as homework?

• governors, not papers. But then again….

I'd have loved this! But maybe in about year 4......

I suppose it would make for an interesting classroom display… not sure what various visitors would make of it.

For those who think this sounds like tremendous fun would you care to share your hilarious torture ideas? I guess I’m intrigued now. I don’t really understand where the line of fun is crossed… finger nail pulling device ok? Specially designed red hot poker up the arse too much? Maybe someone could be forced to eat their own excrement somehow… I’m sure it’s all happened in the course of history, or upsettingly, (I mean, not upsettingly, this is all a great hoot…) maybe not even that long ago. Am I doing this homework right or have I overstepped the appropriate for teenagers torture line yet? I feel like there’s a fine line here between a gold star and concerned phone call to parents/safeguarding referral…

I like this perspective on empathy and history (from an article on History Today):

Too much emotional detachment from the people and events of the past presents a problem for wider society. The mistaken but prevalent concept that history is something distant, that it has no bearing on the present, is a dangerous one. As our cultural memory of what it means to live through war or times of extreme hardship diminishes, so too does our empathy for those who endured these trials. Eventually, our respect for them falls away as well. It becomes easy to mock a murder victim of 130 years ago or to regard Jack the Ripper not as a person, but as a legend on a par with fictional creations such as Dracula or Jekyll and Hyde.

To rehash my earlier comment; I think the suitability of this homework is entirely down to the context in which it was set, the class work and discussion which preceded and follow it, and the teacher’s understanding of his/her students.

Picture of a Tudor Rose with 'Lest we forget' beneath. A perfect response to that homework.

That’s a nasty homework task. Trivialises torture. I wouldn’t have wanted to do it as a child and I would not let a child of mine do it either. No need for it at all.

OP we had a similar experience last year. I spoke to the head in the end who agreed it was inappropriate and who stepped in, and I regret not getting the head involved more quickly. There is a way to teach history appropriately, including the difficult bits, and I don't think devising a torture method is of any learning value at all and really is a bit off. I think it might also indicate other issues with the teacher, to be honest, though in our case our teacher had good points and on balance he just needed a bit of guidance from his head as to certain subject matter. If that makes sense.

Sorry, just also to say, dc didn't want me to step in at first, but in the end I said eventually that it was the right thing to do and dc were very relieved afterwards, just in case that helps.

I think this is absoutely disgusting. I have just been discussing this with my husband who is a retired teacher, and he too thinks this is not good.
There's enough unpleasantness in the world without stupidity like this.

I think it sounds like really fun homework. It consolidates what they've been learning in the history unit and lets them really use their imagination. These are Y8 kids. They've probably thought up lots of ways of torturing people already and this gives them a voice. I don't think it will turn them into sadistic psychopaths.

@pollymere

I think it sounds like really fun homework. It consolidates what they've been learning in the history unit and lets them really use their imagination. These are Y8 kids. They've probably thought up lots of ways of torturing people already and this gives them a voice. I don't think it will turn them into sadistic psychopaths.

This does not automatically absolve the coursework set, but I'm guessing a fair amount would have already played call of duty, or gtav or fornite. Ect

So in some respects would all the parents agree and are outraged about this homework being set, will be banning different games that have age restriction for a reason due to the themes involved in the games that link with the type of themes that are also involved with the coursework ?

I can’t remember what year it was in but my son had to make a model or drawing or presentation about a torture or execution method that existed and they were given different time periods and it was at least educational about the past and even then I was a bit but to create a NEW form of torture? To ask children to actually THINK UP a way to torture people not just research one that already existed?! Nope. That’s crossing a line there I think. That’s not history if you’re creating it.

Get her to invent a tickle torture device. Not inflicting pain but a way of getting information through incessant tickling

The teacher sounds like a psychopath.

Any chance of an update @milkysmum?

How about...describe a parking issue WITHOUT a diagram on Mumsnet whilst fending off barracking, criticism and snide remarks...

@PineForestsAndSunshine

I like this perspective on empathy and history (from an article on History Today):

Too much emotional detachment from the people and events of the past presents a problem for wider society. The mistaken but prevalent concept that history is something distant, that it has no bearing on the present, is a dangerous one. As our cultural memory of what it means to live through war or times of extreme hardship diminishes, so too does our empathy for those who endured these trials. Eventually, our respect for them falls away as well. It becomes easy to mock a murder victim of 130 years ago or to regard Jack the Ripper not as a person, but as a legend on a par with fictional creations such as Dracula or Jekyll and Hyde.

To rehash my earlier comment; I think the suitability of this homework is entirely down to the context in which it was set, the class work and discussion which preceded and follow it, and the teacher’s understanding of his/her students.

How to design a better way to torturing someone eg breaking bones or burn the skin of a screaming human without killing them too quickly. Where is that ranked on an empathy scale?

Rather that design a better way to cause harm why not look at the long term damage the abuse caused. How medical assistance was almost non-existent, infection killed, no financial support and being unable to work resulted in starving to death etc

@pucelleauxblanchesmains

I think some of the reaction - and why I dislike a lot of Horrible Histories stuff - on here stems from an assumption, articulated or not, that people in the past weren't quite the same as us and therefore we can be voyeuristic and comedic about some of the really harrowing stuff they went through. Like many PPs have said, designing a new experiment for Dr Mengele or a way to kill Vietnamese children instantly registers as a horrifically inappropriate idea, but if the people being tortured weren't modern plenty of people on here lose sight of that.

exactly. where is the humanity. like the london dungeon, what is funny about that. why on earth take children to such a place, as if it's a fun fair. i think we have lost out moral sense.

I'm a history teacher - I think it's an awful hw that I would never set (frankly they did so much awful stuff to people at different times in the past you'd have to go some to think up something else and who wants to be doing that?!!!!!) I'd email and say you're very uncomfortable with this and could she be excused/could you speak to the HOD about it? This isn't an excuse (as I wouldn't have set it before having children either as I see no educational value in it) but having children has made me much more thoughtful about the gore level of what I do. Maybe her teacher is a young without children and trying (and failing) to be engaging!!