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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DD being asked to design a torture method for homework??

398 replies

milkysmum · 29/03/2022 16:46

DD has been set her history homework for this week. She has to design a ' new Tudor Torture device'. Draw it, label it etc and explain why it would be more effective than previous know torture devices! AIBU that this is a bit unnecessary? They are year 8. Do they really need to be encouraged to think of new ways to torture people!?

OP posts:
shreddednips · 30/03/2022 13:29

The side benefit of teachers setting tasks like this is that the pupils' submissions can be used to highlight anyone with a particular interest or aptitude for torture and flag them up for closer monitoring by the authorities.

How could this be reasonably used to flag students in this way? The teacher asked them to do it. So we want you to come up with a novel way of inflicting pain, but not too novel or we'll draw conclusions about your interest in torture (which we actively encouraged.)

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 30/03/2022 13:35

Often the best way to understand something that is incomprehensible to modern humans (such as torture, the concentration camps set up in Poland and Germany in WW2, slavery) is to get inside the heads of the people who supported those acts.

But it wouldn't be appropriate to ask children to come up with new ways of 'punishing' disobedient slaves...

slimshady18 · 30/03/2022 14:05

@SummerDays2020

That's awful. At that age having to do something like that would have traumatised me and given me nightmares. Probably would still feel like that if I was made to do it now.
if that would traumatise you, you need to get a life
334bu · 30/03/2022 14:34

if that would traumatise you, you need to get a life

What a stupid thing today!

334bu · 30/03/2022 14:34

to say

CatsArePeople · 30/03/2022 15:05

Kids love that sort of gross stuff. This will be one memorable homework.

Thefsm · 30/03/2022 17:43

Wow, I'd bloody love this homework.

Magicandspiders · 30/03/2022 17:47

I can imagine a lot of children would enjoy this sort of thing. There is a reason 'Horrible Histories' is so popular and why the Tower of London is a huge tourist site.

mycatisannoying · 30/03/2022 17:48

Ha ha! I'd have loved this as a kid Grin

EV117 · 30/03/2022 17:51

To remove torture suggests the Tudors just flounced around in their finery having slight disagreements with churches and not being very good at that married life lark.

There’s Grand Canyon sized chasm of difference between learning about torture and sitting down to design a torture device, imagining how best to inflict horrific and prolonged pain on another human being. It is pretty fucked up.

Kgiggl3s · 30/03/2022 17:57

Crime and punishment is a part of the history curriculum. That will be why. In year 6 it is suggested in the history curriculum, not compulsory. The kids love it!

Mummadeze · 30/03/2022 18:01

Seems wrong to me. I wouldn’t be happy with my DD being asked to do this.

roarfeckingroarr · 30/03/2022 18:02

I would've loved that at 8!

VK456 · 30/03/2022 18:09

How grim. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

nannykatherine · 30/03/2022 18:28

This teacher needs to be struck off

Newmummytoakitten · 30/03/2022 18:31

Get her to draw a feather duster

Bleachmycloths · 30/03/2022 18:32

Complain. I’m a teacher of many years. This is misguided. Possibly a young teacher? Inappropriate task.

LaughingCat · 30/03/2022 18:53

Honestly? I don’t mind this at all. At 12, it would have encouraged me to engage with the topic, read into what was used at the time and think laterally about how to improve on those methods. It would have inspired me to do more reading around the Tudors and then come to my own conclusions about their society (which would have been along the lines of ‘cool but man, were they messed up).

As a note, I am not, in any way, into hurting people. I watch the ground as I walk to avoid stepping on ants. Causing pain actually makes me feel a bit ill.

But the theoretical exercise would have been different and engaging enough to get me learning more about the Tudors and the society in which they lived. I mean - learning about Middle Age sieges was AWESOME because I got to learn all about trebuchets, and drenching soldiers in boiling pitch as they tried to scale the walls, or lobbing dead cows into the city walls to spread disease and kill the townsfolk. That shit is INTERESTING when you’re twelve. Learning dry dates and treaties and royal lines, so much less so.

But then…I grew up with a Tom and Jerry that did their best to kill each other rather than being best buds. With fairy tales and fables full of darkness, death and gore, and people died horribly for making poor choices rather than treating each other with love and respect while singing a merry song. And that was considered entertainment for four year olds. If you are at least 35, you will have grown up with the same. Did it screw you up? Probably not.

If my mum would have moaned at my school for using similar techniques as Looney Tunes cartoons to get me to engage with the work, I would now, as an adult, consider her mad.

I’m so weirded out by how much we are sanitising kids’ experiences now, because I think it’ll really harm their ability to handle all of the shite on the web and in real life when they do explore it fully. There’s a lot of dark stuff out there…we need to trust them, or they’ll never be able to handle it.

ClaudineClare · 30/03/2022 19:01

LaughingCat no-one is saying this subject shouldn't be taught or that we should mollycoddle kids (not possible anway when everything is just a few clicks away in a smartphone).

However, asking them to put time and thought into how to torture someone is a really odd and distasteful piece of homework to set. Imagine you are a survivor of torture and your kid brings the worksheet that OP posted home.

OliveLover01 · 30/03/2022 19:19

I think many kids would love this homework. It requires an understanding of the already taught) used torture methods, an understanding of anatomy, a level of creativity/imagination. it’s the kind of thing that makes Horrible Histories so popular isn’t it? I don’t think this one piece of homework is going to encourage any of them to actually build it, patent it, and sell it to the CIA.

However if she really doesn’t agree with it (and it should be her decision) then let her take charge. Don’t go complaining as an overprotective mother. The assignment is also an exercise in putting an argument across in the description. Maybe she could make the point by making an argument against torture as an effective method of extracting information. There is loads of info on Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch websites…

I think she is a bit old for mummy to write a letter of complaint at every opportunity. Talk to her about it. If she wants to do it let her. She isn’t in reception. (My son is and he would LOVE this homework). But she doesn’t like it then help her work out a more mature way to make her thoughts known.

thebabynanny · 30/03/2022 19:22

@LaughingCat

Honestly? I don’t mind this at all. At 12, it would have encouraged me to engage with the topic, read into what was used at the time and think laterally about how to improve on those methods. It would have inspired me to do more reading around the Tudors and then come to my own conclusions about their society (which would have been along the lines of ‘cool but man, were they messed up).

As a note, I am not, in any way, into hurting people. I watch the ground as I walk to avoid stepping on ants. Causing pain actually makes me feel a bit ill.

But the theoretical exercise would have been different and engaging enough to get me learning more about the Tudors and the society in which they lived. I mean - learning about Middle Age sieges was AWESOME because I got to learn all about trebuchets, and drenching soldiers in boiling pitch as they tried to scale the walls, or lobbing dead cows into the city walls to spread disease and kill the townsfolk. That shit is INTERESTING when you’re twelve. Learning dry dates and treaties and royal lines, so much less so.

But then…I grew up with a Tom and Jerry that did their best to kill each other rather than being best buds. With fairy tales and fables full of darkness, death and gore, and people died horribly for making poor choices rather than treating each other with love and respect while singing a merry song. And that was considered entertainment for four year olds. If you are at least 35, you will have grown up with the same. Did it screw you up? Probably not.

If my mum would have moaned at my school for using similar techniques as Looney Tunes cartoons to get me to engage with the work, I would now, as an adult, consider her mad.

I’m so weirded out by how much we are sanitising kids’ experiences now, because I think it’ll really harm their ability to handle all of the shite on the web and in real life when they do explore it fully. There’s a lot of dark stuff out there…we need to trust them, or they’ll never be able to handle it.

There's a lot of dark stuff out there and children will find a lot of it when they google "torture methods" to do this homework Hmm

As an adult, I've been upset reading stories of torture in North Korean prison camps or Nazi experiments. The Belgians amputating Congolese children's hands to punish their parents. The rape and torture of women and children in wars all over the world, including in Ukraine now.
I don't think it is "sanitising children's experiences" to not ask them to come up with new ideas for how to inflict pain, misery and suffering on other people.

As someone else asked, how will the teacher deal with the child whose torture device is based on rape or mutilating babies in front of their parents? Some brand new torture method based on clips of horror movies they've seen, Dr Mengele experiments and atrocities of war Confused They could sew people together, but just no electrical torture, remember it's Tudor times!
It's just a hugely strange thing to ask children to be creative about.

Laurie000 · 30/03/2022 19:23

I suspect that this could be a way of getting certain children to do their homework as it’s certainly an interesting task. Not quite the most appropriate homework to set though.
Perhaps, speak to the teacher who set the homework if you can or form teacher. As a teacher (primary), I much prefer it when parents speak to me directly, so nothing gets lost along the way and it gives me the opportunity to ask/answer questions and explain anything.

CountryMouse22 · 30/03/2022 19:34

Force them to watch hour upon hour of Eastenders!

Seriously, this is somewhat disturbing. I'd get in touch with the head.

LaughingCat · 30/03/2022 19:37

@ClaudineClare - no, at that age I was being asked how to win a siege on both sides, with plan for destroying morale in the besieged and how to kill as many of the opposing people as possible. Plus points if you used innovative methods not in the textbook (which meant an everloving trip to the library to read up back then).

It’s gross. I had to try and work out how to kill as many people as possible, and break their spirits in the process. I still remember it now as one of my favourite homeworks, even better than that one class in biology where they let us play with a live virus 😍.

It may be distasteful to some people, it seems like you fall in that camp, but it won’t be to all. I don’t think it’s wrong to react in that way but not everyone will. I find it interesting to see how horrified some of the reactions are on here. It’s an intellectual exercise, nothing more. There may be discussions happening in class that talk about the morality and efficacy of torture, that encourages them to develop empathy and critical reasoning. That wouldn’t necessarily come across in the homework.

On the off chance that someone’s parent has been the victim of sustained torture (not the most likely thing, but an outside possibility), then obviously it could be triggering. But I’m not sure you should set homework based on ‘what if this causes a trauma to a parent’.

Ultimately, I think that the marks should go to any kids who work out that the information you extract using torture is rarely reliable and therefore the best thing to do would be to try and turn them, with kindness not cruelty.

RobotValkyrie · 30/03/2022 19:45

This is seriously fucked up.
Bear in mind that (statistically, given domestic abuse and bullying rates) some of the kids being asked to perform this task will have witnessed and/or experienced physical abuse, in their own house or elsewhere.
And a smaller but very real proportion will be contemplating committing such acts themselves, perhaps even have done it already (the kind of messed up kids who torture small animals, and, given the opportunity, other kids)

The exercise completely trivialises tortures, and incites children to look at it through an amoral, desensitised lens.
This is extremely emotionally damaging for anyone who has suffered deliberate violence. And very dangerous for someone contemplating violence.
Completely irresponsible. I don't believe the pastoral care team and safeguarding lead would approve.