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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this is not a good excuse re: school toilets

97 replies

SummerDays2020 · 28/03/2022 19:38

I was at a PTA meeting last week. The school toilets were being discussed. I mentioned that my Y5 DD had said that the boys and girls had to share their toilets and that I didn't think it was appropriate at that age. I was told it was true but 'it was the way things were going, nowadays'. Well, that may be true but I still don't think it is appropriate.

Should I push further or is it acceptable nowadays that boys and girls of 9/10 years old should be expected to share toilets?

OP posts:

bythere · 28/03/2022 22:48

This isn't right. I can see it only being acceptable for very young children(say of nursery age) but older children need privacy from each other.

Original poster

SummerDays2020 · 28/03/2022 23:02

@ldontWanna

What is the set up? When did the change happen and why?

Some schools did this during covid so bubbles wouldn't mix . One class would have one set of toilets right outside the classroom. Of course we wouldn't send all the kids in at once, and the classes that were using the previously boys' toilets were reminded not to use the urinals for everyone's privacy and comfort. Now everything is back to girls and boys toilets.

DD's school has mixed toilets in the classroom. 4 cubicles. I actually don't know what the hand washing situation is but I will ask since they are y5 and the while period/hand washing/sanitary products disposal is looming.

As far as I know each year group has their own toilets so they are near their classrooms. I assumed there was a seperate boys and girls but DD recently told me they have to share. Not sure how long it has been like that.

OP posts:

Yesiknowyes · 28/03/2022 23:11

Absolutely not! Absolutely raise the hell with the school. And I’m usually very protective of schools. I don’t understand why would they want so many potential trouble on themselves to be honest, they are literally putting themselves at risk with such policy.

Hollyharndale776 · 29/03/2022 00:33

people with periods, boys can have periods too.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/03/2022 01:18

boys can have periods too

Don't be ridiculous. Only females can menstruate. Teenage girls with dysphoria have not changed sex.

Hollyharndale776 · 29/03/2022 01:21

No they haven't, but they may have changed gender.

WomblingWilma · 29/03/2022 01:22

DS’s secondary has had unisex toilets since it was built over 10 years ago. Staff use them as well. I wasn’t aware it was illegal? Apparently there have never been any issues. They are cleaned 4 times a day, not that I’ve ever been able see them as we never had a tour or even a parents evening since he started last year due to Covid.

DS has never used school loos since proclaiming them disgusting in Reception at Primary School though! Luckily he has a bladder like mine.

PanicPrevention · 29/03/2022 01:22

Holly if your teenage boy is bleeding take him to a doctor as a matter of urgency.
Only female people menstruate.
Human beings cannot change sex.
There's nothing wrong with a year 5 girl who might wrongly believe she's actually a boy going into the girls toilets for the sani bin.
There are many things wrong with that situation and school toilets Is the least of it.
Mixed sex facilities are illegal over 8yo.
For the safety privacy and dignity of girls,however they identify.

PanicPrevention · 29/03/2022 01:29

Toilets are separated by sex not gender so be whatever gender you like.
I'm asteral gender, not many toilets I go in have a skylight.
Some people are catgender, they don't get to shit in a box of sawdust.
Genders are infinite, toileting facilities tend to be divided by sex. There are only 2of them, much cheaper and more efficient.

NewYearSoon · 29/03/2022 01:34

@WomblingWilma, are the toilets all individual self-contained cubicles with their doors opening onto a corridor?

Staff sharing toilets with students is a serious issue for ISI (Independent Schools Inspectorate) and I would imagine OFSTED, too.

All the toilets in the secondary schools I work in have notices making it very clear whether they are to be used by staff or by students, even the ones which are single cubicles off a corridor.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/03/2022 01:37

No they haven't, but they may have changed gender

What is a 'gender'?

Women have periods. Those few who want to pretend they are something else and opt out don't then get to demand the rest of us stop using the words woman and girls in relation to female only biology.

They know damn well they are female so know that anything referencing women's health includes them regardless of what they choose to call themselves.

Snazzyjazzpants · 29/03/2022 03:48

@PanicPrevention

Toilets are separated by sex not gender so be whatever gender you like. I'm asteral gender, not many toilets I go in have a skylight. Some people are catgender, they don't get to shit in a box of sawdust. Genders are infinite, toileting facilities tend to be divided by sex. There are only 2of them, much cheaper and more efficient.

Rumour has it, litterboxes for teens are a thing Albeit not a reliable rumour, and I don't know who allegedly empties them.

YouHaveYourFathersBreasts · 29/03/2022 06:18

My child’s secondary school has unisex toilets. The school was built within the last 10 years and that was one of the design decisions. Each cubicle has floor to ceiling doors and a sanitary bin and staff use them too. My child is in their 3rd year there now and says there are no issues with the loo set up. It’s been designed to prevent as much bad behaviour in them as possible.

PugInTheHouse · 29/03/2022 06:53

FFS there is always one. Boys cannot and do not have periods, it is physically impossible.

I would be really unhappy with this. Separate cubicles with no shared area is fine but if they are easy to open from the outside then definitely. My 2 yo used to do this at my mums house as he had no patience.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/03/2022 06:55

Thank you to that poster who has successfully highlighted one aspect at least of the harm caused hy indulging gender ideology in children.

If a boy is bleeding from his private area he needs medical attention. He may have a uti , or even an sti. You could stand around arguing over gender or you could , you know, try not to kill his kidneys and/or call the police .

Likewise any girl having a period below the age of 8 also needs to see a dr. And she needs one if she hasn't started by 16.

There is a good reason sex education was brought into schools. That reason hasnt changed. Its imperative that it is accurate. Factual. And based on biology not ideology.

Carrie is meant to just be a movie.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/03/2022 07:06

My child is in their 3rd year there now and says there are no issues with the loo set up. It’s been designed to prevent as much bad behaviour in them as possible

I hate this with a passion. Everyone knows girls do not speak up. Everyone knows that the whole point of grooming ( im using the G word to talk about CSA befire anyone reports me ) is to erode boundaries so the child being abused has no idea that particular behaviours are not actually normal. So every sexually abused child, each one the staff may well be aware of, will not speak up because they don't know they should. And because they may well have had threats made in order to ensure they keep their months shut.

Any teacher who suddenly forgets these basic facts needs to stop patting themselves on the back for coming up with a " solution" to bullying, well they say solution the rest of us say the girls are just having to absorb the bad behaviour , and walk out that door.

BurntEnds · 29/03/2022 07:08

Maybe the PTA could use their funds to upgrade them to two sets of loos one for each sex/gender however you want to do it. No reason why those who identify as boys have to share with those who identify as girls.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/03/2022 07:17

No reason why those who identify as boys have to share with those who identify as girls

Safeguarding should apply to trans kids too. No one cares how kids identify when they abuse them. No one cares how they identify when their bodies are exposed after PE.

When it comes to safguarding it should be based on reality. This should be made clear from the start so there are no arguments

BurntEnds · 29/03/2022 07:20

@Whatwouldscullydo

No reason why those who identify as boys have to share with those who identify as girls

Safeguarding should apply to trans kids too. No one cares how kids identify when they abuse them. No one cares how they identify when their bodies are exposed after PE.

When it comes to safguarding it should be based on reality. This should be made clear from the start so there are no arguments

I was just thinking if the majority of people are in the loo of their sex then it reduces the risk and everyone will have an idea who the trans kids are anyway

NiceTwin · 29/03/2022 07:23

If the toilet has a lockable door ie. You enter off corridor and it has a sink in it, it can be unisex.

If it is a traditional cubicle set up, from the age of 8 it is a legal requirement that they are single sex.

I have had the same argument with my dd's school, they backed down once I threw the legal document at them.
If you do an advanced search on threads I have started, there are links to the legislation in there.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 29/03/2022 07:44

@Hollyharndale776

people with periods, boys can have periods too.

What a stupid comment. No boys cannot have periods. Females have periods. That's it. Then deciding they don't feel female doesn't mean they aren't.

Original poster

SummerDays2020 · 29/03/2022 07:46

@nicetwin - thank you.

OP posts:

334bu · 29/03/2022 07:57

Stonewall don't and never have pushed for schools to only have gender neutral toilets.

Really? So they just ignore the details when they lobby for the removal of all single sex exceptions for womenbfron the Eqyality Act. I suppose, when you are lobbying to force women's refuges , female prisons and female hospital wards to be mixed sex then school toilets are a minor detail.

334bu · 29/03/2022 07:58

women from the Equality Act...
Sorry for typos

TizerorFizz · 29/03/2022 08:03

As far as I can see, single sex is required after 8. Unisex only permitted if the toilet and sink sre self contained in one room with a lockable door. Staff loos must be separate., The Government website has the details.

I would have thought keeping boys and girls separate just made sense. Why does anything need to change?

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