Will Smith/Chris Rock Oscars - where do you stand?

[Jaggerdagger]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-60898250

I'm a bit on the fence at the moment but shocked from watching this - wondered what others think?

YABU Will Smith had every right to wallop Chris. His wife was clearly deeply insulted. He deserved it.
YANBU Chris was just reading from a script and didn't deserve such a public assault.

i think the joke was about Will and Jada not being in the same league as actors as Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz - Chris Rock went direcly from joking about how awkard it would be if Javier won and Penelope didn't to saying no chance of similar worries for the Smiths, as she'd be lucky to be cast in a crap sequel, and then just because of her haircut.

still nasty and petty, but not about alopecia. he's made mean jokes about her before and obviously doesn't like her.

Will totally out of order, should have been removed straight away.

I sided with Chris until I understood the situation a little more (Jada suffering from alopecia). If she had chosen to rock the 'GI Jane' look then I'm sure she would've taken it in jest, but I can imagine she's probably mortified about having to shave her head due to hair loss.

Imagine your husband, wife, child, whomever, had an illness or disability that they were very self conscious about and then someone stood on stage in front of millions and laughed in their face over how they looked. Not a generalised joke, but a joke specifically about how they look.

Now tell me you wouldn't, or at the very least consider, slapping them in the face.

Violence is never the answer and I think Will should have been removed there and then as that is just saying that violence is acceptable. Will could have said something to Chris Rock later on. He should have held her hand and comforted her and let it pass. We all go on about no violence to women but why is it acceptable for a man to hit another man like that. No to violence not acceptable at all.

I’m not minimizing WS’s reaction. Violence is not okay. I put it down to history between the two of them until I heard WS’s speech afterwards. He claims that he has been “called by god” to protect his family and also “called by god to protect” several actresses that he called out by name. They looked uncomfortable AF. He specifically claimed to have already protected one of them. He’s maniacal.

@idiotintrusion
If someone essentially called my balding husband "baldy", slapping them would be pretty low down on my list of likely reactions.
If his Chris Rock had responded by laying Will Smith out with a punch, that would have been more reasonable than Will Smith's initial slap.

Chris Rock made a cruel and un-funny joke but I'm really shocked Will Smith thought it was acceptable to go and stage and slap him. It's outrageous!

[quote ToiletPoster]@idiotintrusion
If someone essentially called my balding husband "baldy", slapping them would be pretty low down on my list of likely reactions.
If his Chris Rock had responded by laying Will Smith out with a punch, that would have been more reasonable than Will Smith's initial slap.[/quote]
Going bald is not exactly the same for a man as a woman though, is it? Hair is very much culturally associated with sex and beauty in women - hence the number of cultures where women are proscribed to cover their hair. Hence the loss of hair can feel de-feminising and de-sexualising for women whereas going bald is not de-masculinising for men.

Why are people equating a balding man with a woman who has alopecia

The interesting thing though is, the GI Jane reference was to Demi Moore who was a gorgeous GI in the move of the same name who shaved her head to look tougher in the marines. She was a strong female character and much lauded. Until Will smacked Chris, I didn't know she suffered alopecia....

I thought she was just being very cool with her shaved head ala Demi Moore.

Jada publically addressing it and taking Chris to task for his insensitivity would have been much more effective than her husband wading in like a Neanderthal to her defence. 2 steps back for feminism and 1 giant leap forward for toxic masculinity.

@notinherethen
Anything can be anything to anyone.
For what it's worth, I've also had alopecia and I think it was the least inconvenient thing I've gone to see my GP about.
My main worry was that it would be permanent and it's not for most people.
I wore a hat a bit more often for a while. I find it weirder that people are comparing it to genuine disabilities to attempt to justify physical assault.
Chris Rock punching Will Smith in response to that slap would have been more understandable than Will Smith slapping Chris Rock in retaliation for him doing his job (lightly roasting celebrities).
I don't really judge Smith, he seems to be going through some struggles of his own, but the justification is odd.

I don’t blame Will Smith at all. Tbf, as unpalatable as it is in modern society, some people will only ever learn by being punched in the mouth. You can try and be the bigger person, turn the other cheek, use a verbal admonishing all you like, some people would just see this as weakness and carry on with their shitty behaviour. I highly suspect CR is that type of person.

What I'd really like to know is whether Chris Rock knew jada had alopecia or whether he just thought it was a fashion statement as that would colour my reaction. However, violence is never the answer, if they had both got up and made a dignified exit it would have had a better result! I don't think it's funny anyway to pick on any audience member by a comedian as you never know what that person is going through at the time or how it might affect them.

Anything can be anything to anyone.

An illness where you lose your hair and natural balding are not the same. They can't be anything to anyone. What does that even mean? One is an illness, one is not. You can't judge anyones experience of illness upon your own.

Will Smith was an idiot. He completely delegitimised his subsequent win and the film
For which he won. He has guaranteed that more jokes will Now be told about his wife than ever before.

The academy also acted poorly though not ejecting Smith from the event after the assault. Had it been someone not famous, they would have been arrested and removed.

Imagine being on the fence about whether it's ok to go and violently attack someone!

Will Smith was unreasonable, he should not have resorted to violence unless in a physically self defensive situation. A huge error on his part however very sympathetic to his wife’s issue. It was a cheap and low joke. Shame on Chris Rock and the production team. Power, money and shallowness normally will shines through with situations like this.

You can't judge anyones experience of illness upon your own.

If that's the case, you definitely can't evaluate someone's experience of illness based your imaginary version of it, so what was the actual point you were trying to make?

I don't think a man slapping a man who is of the same size and strength as him is the same as a man slapping a woman who is smaller and weaker than him, for example
What about a woman slapping a woman? What if the slapper is one inch shorter?

Slapping is violent no matter what. It hurts and it's insulting. What's the point in trying to compare who is it worse for when it's bad either way?

As for excuse it due to mental health? Always easier to do when the victim is someone you don't care for or dislike. Much harder to sympathise with when the victim is someone you love!

@Sofasogood1

Imagine being on the fence about whether it's ok to go and violently attack someone!

Indeed.

If he had sat there deadpan and shook his head, Chris Rock would have looked like a total dick. Now Will is the one who looks like a dick.

Well they both do

All of Rock’s material would have been approved by the academy and rehearsed multiple times before the awards.
What Rebel Wilson said about Smith at the BAFTAs was way worse.
I’m not defending Rock at all, just saying this jibe may have been the last straw

I have alopecia. The joke wasn't aimed at losing hair or having alopecia. I don't think Chris knew Jada has it- to look at her you would never know. She doesn't seem to have a current 'flare up', her head is covered in stubble, no give away bald patches.
People justifying the violence on behalf of alopecia sufferers don't speak for all of us.
Will seemed like he was on something btw. The acceptance speech was delusional!

@vivainsomnia

I don't think a man slapping a man who is of the same size and strength as him is the same as a man slapping a woman who is smaller and weaker than him, for example What about a woman slapping a woman? What if the slapper is one inch shorter?

Slapping is violent no matter what. It hurts and it's insulting. What's the point in trying to compare who is it worse for when it's bad either way?

As for excuse it due to mental health? Always easier to do when the victim is someone you don't care for or dislike. Much harder to sympathise with when the victim is someone you love!

What's the point in trying to compare who is it worse for when it's bad either way?

Because I think it is dangerous and just plain wrong to try to pretend that there is no difference in the degree of things. I think we do need to be precise. There is a difference between the violence the Ukrainians are meting out to the Russians, and the violence that the Russians are meting out to the Ukrainians, for example. Because of the motivation for these.

I think most sane people would see a difference between a 6 foot grown man punching another 6 foot grown man, and a 6 foot grown man punching a five year old child.

Just because things are 'bad' we don't need to uncritically throw them all in the 'bad;' pot and do no further analysis on the type and severity of bad that they are, or to think that we don't need different responses to deal with different badnesses.

I'm currently sporting a GI Jane look - and much like Jada Pinkett Smith, it's not by choice. Mine is as a result of chemo though rather than alopecia.

Losing my hair has absolutely broken me. My self confidence is in the gutter. The only person who is fully aware of this is my husband. He's the one who helped me shave my head, who cleared away all my cut off hair. He's the one who consoles me when I cry about feeling so ugly. He's the one who knows the truth behind the smile when I'm pretending I'm fine.

I can very easily imagine my husband reacting badly to someone making a joke about my baldness. I'm not saying he'd slap someone, but he'd certainly react. Factor in a huge audience there in person, and the millions watching, I'm not at all surprised things went the way they did. Will Smith is probably the only person who knows just how much JPS's alopecia affects her and how much strength it takes her to put herself in such a public place feeling as low as she does about her appearance.