School residential is religious

[Stephthegreat]

Dcs school is CofE and as there are four faith schools closest to us we sent dcs to the nearest one. Neither me or dh are religious but we support the values of the faith and the school.

The school used to go to a really fab place for residential and it was full of activities, adventuring, just a really fun weekend. Ds is due to go on camp soon and the new residential the school have chosen looks extremely religious. Ds really doesn’t enjoy this side of school and has his own ideas about faith.

The programme involves daily bible study and ‘getting to know jesus’. There are bible related games and quizzes and prayer sessions. It looks like they do bushcraft and have a bonfire too which is up Ds street. He’s a bit put off by the whole idea and I also think it’s quite serious!

AIBU?

I went on the religious residential from hell. Most of the children in my faith school were not religious, but all the schools in my town were religious, so we didn't have a choice. The staff took it very seriously. My parents basically paid for me to be berated for a week over my lack of enthusiasm for an old book.

Has there been a change of Head in the school? The reason U ask is that my two DC both attended a CofE school but became noticeably more ‘ religious’ when a new Headmaster was appointed.

Like others on this thread my DCs attend(ed) the local CofE school because all the schools are CofE in our rural area. DS2 (11) is going on his first residential soon and there is no religious aspect to it, nor was there when my older kids went on theirs. If there were 'daily bible studies' listed he would choose not to go.

I teach in a CoE school where around 90% of the children are Anglican. No one is ever forced into praying, a teacher or priest will say a prayer and children have the choice of joining in or not. It’s the same with all religious activities. Children are taught about what Anglicans believe, they aren’t brainwashed. It’s not my religion but nothing about it makes me uncomfortable, children are taught what SOME people believe. Speak to the staff and explain your concerns, they might actually reassure you.

He doesn't have to go, surely.

It amazes me that in a 21st century pluralistic liberal democracy, not all children have access to secular (i.e. not affiliated to any particular religion, rather than "pushing atheism") state schooling.

What amazes me more is that people are so acquiescent — to the point that people are told off for objecting to excessive religious instruction being given to children at schools they had no other choice than to attend.

Accident of history is not a good excuse when it comes to provision of high-quality non-discriminatory secular schooling for children.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

It amazes me that in a 21st century pluralistic liberal democracy, not all children have access to secular (i.e. not affiliated to any particular religion, rather than "pushing atheism") state schooling.

What amazes me more is that people are so acquiescent — to the point that people are told off for objecting to excessive religious instruction being given to children at schools they had no other choice than to attend.

Accident of history is not a good excuse when it comes to provision of high-quality non-discriminatory secular schooling for children.

Would it just be the schools with a Christian ethos that you have objections to, or would it apply to all religious schools ?

@Babdoc

I don’t see how it can possibly harm your DS to be educated about his country’s state established religion while having fun activities. Do you think Christ is a bad role model, or there is something wrong with being asked to love our neighbours?

This is not educating him about the religion. It's basically aimed at, at best, encouraging pupils to embrace one faith and follow it as a fundamental truth. . Let's face it, it won't be about following Christ as a role model, it will be about how God is wonderful, we must all worship him, Jesus was his son, Jesus was born by immaculate conception, Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead - so they won't be teaching them known facts, they will be telling the children to accept all this somewhat iffy stuff totally on trust.

@Qwill

Where does their funding come from?

The vast majority of funding comes from the Government - or, more accurately, taxpayers.

@ButtockUp

Think you'll need to suck it up. Or remove your child and pay the fine.

There's no fine payable for deciding not to send your child on a residential school trip. The school will have to arrange education within the school in the normal way for any children not going on the trip.

Is it one of the Rock UK sites?
If so I wouldn't worry. They do 'what about God' for 20 mins per day ( less than school assembly), and that's including chat and craft or game. It wnt be enough to
Indoctrinate and is more likely to I be a 'what would you do' discussion.
It is more than offset by all the sports and activity opportunities.

Well you should have moved closer to the non faith school then!

I've read some bloody ridiculous things on here in my time, but that may just win some sort of prize for sheer ludicrousness.

@MadMadMadamMim

Don't send your children to a faith school, then complain when they share their faith.

If you object to a religious message being part of school events, choose a secular school.

It is basically that simple.

How is it "basically that simple" when the only schools near to you are faith schools and your children stand no chance of getting a place in any non-faith schools because they live too far away?

@uptonogoode

Well *@Stephthegreat* you could take him out of that school and travel the 25 minutes or so to the non faith school.

How could she possibly do that if her child stood no chance of getting a place in the non-faith school?

The level of ignorance around here about the lack of realistic school choice in some areas is really astonishing.

OP, you can't afford to move or travel to a non faith school so you suck it up. You have zero right to complain, you are ridiculously unreasonable

Of course she has a right to complain, @MadameGazelleBand; by what law is she deprived of that right? It's not her fault that there is inadequate provision of non-faith school places in her area. If anything, she can and probably should use the law which entitles her to require that her son be withdrawn from all religious teaching..

Would it just be the schools with a Christian ethos that you have objections to, or would it apply to all religious schools ?

What a bizarre response. Did you see the words "Christian" or "ethos" anywhere in my post?

Cos that's what I think you are talking about. Am I wrong ?

Yes, you're wrong. I think every child in this country should have a right to an accessible, free secular education. The fact that when a child cannot access that it's largely because all the accessible schools are C of E is just an accident of history. I'd object just as much if they were Zoroastrian schools.

@MyDcAreMarvel

Quite serious? Um it’s a church school sending kids to a camp that has a Christian element.

Both my DSs went to a church school (all our local schools are CofE) - none of the school trips away were for bible study and getting to know Jesus and I would not have let them go if they had been.

We accepted there would be a stronger focus on Christianity while they attended. They are now full grown and able to make their own choices about belief.

My DC went to a private RC school (XH is RC) and it didn't do them any harm. DD even had her first communion but later rejected the Catholic faith once she became aware of the hypocrisy and corruption in the Church.

My DC believe in God, as I do (I was brought up CoE) but none of us believe in or practice organised religion. Faith has always been a personal choice in my family. The DC benefitted from an excellent education whilst being able to make up their own minds about religion, especially since they had a basis for comparison.

As parents have the right to withdraw their children from religious instruction in school, presumably you should have the right to ask for him not to take part in the religious elements of this trip, OP.

I'd contact the school to get an accurate idea of exactly what the timetabling is likely to be, and how much time the religious element will take up. And if it's more than the equivalent of an assembly, I'd query it and make your feelings clear.

YANBU and we are likely to be in your shoes very soon (DC in CoE local school when we are atheists- but that's the local school in our small town).

I too would be gutted the great residential had been swapped to the very religious sounding one! I'm imagining being in your exact situation v soon.. I think I will explain to my DC that while we (DP and I) don't believe in God, some people do and there are all different types of religions that different people believe in. It's interesting to learn about, and it helps people makes sense of and feel better about things that are hard to understand. So if DC were keen to go, I would send them on the residential saying- enjoy being with friends and all the fun activities, and take the chance to be curious and learn about what people believe and why. But don't worry about and and if it seems weird let's talk it over when you get home.

I'm a Christian but I get this, the evangelical branch of the C of E can be very fundamental with a big emphasis on have you been saved and sin and the elect and pre destination. I'd be worried about sending my impressionable child to something like this and I'd be concerned about the message they are sending out. Personally I'd have a chat with the school if your son can sit and respectfully listen and isn't forced to testify about his faith or lack of it and you have look at the curriculum to see which bits of the Bible they will be focusing on then it might be workable, otherwise I'd pull my child out. Evangelicals at a C of E did a number on my mental psyche some years ago and I had to move churches because I was so uncomfortable with the nature of that church.

Many village schools are C of E because of history. The Church providing a school in the local community.

So people rarely have little choice but to send their DC to a C of E school if they want a local school.

It's handy for the C of E to keep things that way. A captive audience.

I think your original point about 'recruitment' might be right.If they are an evangelical group running the residential then they will see this as an opportunity to spread the 'gospel'. I really wouldn't be happy about this either as it's not really a fun weekend, it's a weekend with an agenda.