Should I enter the NHS as a trainee nurse if I am gender critical?

[Balicious]

I have been offered a place on a nursing degree apprenticeship within a GP surgery. Since I applied I have watched YouTube videos that GP nurses have posted in relation to the trans healthcare they have to provide. It appears the NHS is pro-trans and since the scandal came out about the rape on a NHS ward and the gaslighting of a patient following this assault, I am rethinking entering the NHS at all. Please help! I am deeply concerned about gender ideology and the effects it is having on women and children. I must admit I would struggle to treat anyone under the age of 18 with hormone blockers/hormonal injections. Will I struggle in the NHS with these views? Am I nursing material or should I reconsider? Honest opinions will be greatly appreciated.

You're clearly not right for the job if you have an opinion, especially that one, that you already know will affect how tou treat your patients. Perhaps a role that doesn't involve speaking to other people would suit you better

As a nurse, I'd say you are not that suited to a job that involves working with people if you feel so strongly about it.

the scandal came out about the rape on a NHS ward and the gaslighting of a patient following this assault, I am rethinking entering the NHS at all.

Just Googled this, very shocking and sounds like the hospital handled it very poorly. I've never worked anywhere with male and female wards though. Bays, yes. Wards, no.

I must admit I would struggle to treat anyone under the age of 18 with hormone blockers/hormonal injections.

I very much doubt you would have anything to do with this, it would be done at a specialist clinic.

@Crystalvas
Maybe do some reading about the different routes that can be taken to become a nurse these days ,instead of telling people they are wrong because you have never heard of it ?
I have not worked on the NHs for around seven years now but even I'm aware things have changed.

Whatever the issue is with a patient, first and foremost, you are their advocate, you leave your own opinions and prejudices at home. One of my patients turned out to have molested his Grandson. I hated treating him, but continued to do so in a friendly and professional way. It's the job .

@Lacedwithgrace

You're clearly not right for the job if you have an opinion, especially that one, that you already know will affect how tou treat your patients. Perhaps a role that doesn't involve speaking to other people would suit you better

What did you think of the BSUH Trust labelling Clare Dimyon a transphobe for requesting that a woman should conduct her mammography? A woman to whom this mattered so much that she'd disclosed her traumatic history as a rape survivor and cited the relevant EA 2010 exception?

Presumably the authors of that guide had all pledged not to let their personal opinions affect patient care…

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3763519-A-woman-who-asked-for-her-NHS-breast-screening-to-be-carried-out-by-a-female-born-clinician-was-pilloried-as-a-transphobe-by-a-hospital-trust

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3751152-Only-consenting-to-receiving-medical-treatment-from-a-female-is-not-acceptable

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

In fairness its the easiest thing to say you hold those values and then not actually have them.

@anotherbrewplease

Your job as a nurse is to care for people - not to judge them.

At no point has the OP said that she wouldn't treat a trans person the same as any other patient.

However there are ethical implications at stake here. First where minors are concerned, have they given informed consent? Would the OP be told to push on with a treatment if she was in any doubt that the individual truly consented? Secondly, the policies in some hospitals have put patients in danger. Would the OP be under pressure to take part in a coverup if something happens? We know that the NHS tends to close ranks against whistleblowers.

@QuebecBagnet

n the Uk a degree is’t necessary to become a staff nurse.

They’re degree apprenticeships so people are still degree qualified. Have a look at the link I posted if you like. But you’re spouting an opinion on something you know nothing about

Ouch… I’m basing it from talking to staff while in hospital in Belfast years ago when I was considering what to do in uni. If things have changed so be it. No need for sarcasm.

By the way I was only asking.

Sorry I didn’t mean to be sarcastic but multiple people were telling you apprenticeship exists and you were still saying they must mean auxiliary nurses.

Apprenticeships are generally used for hcsw/auxiliaries to get them fully qualified so you normally need to already be working for the nhs. Not sure if they’re available in Belfast but worth looking again if you’re interested.

OP do the apprenticeship if you like people and working with them. I wouldn't give trans issues much of a thought. Many people in the nhs have differing views and opinions on trans rights, you leave them at the door when you start work and do your job.
You haven't said if you would have an issue treating a trans person - this is probably a more important question.

I've worked in the NHS for 40 years and have never had any discussions about gender.

I'm toward the end of another healthcare related degree, I'm gender critical, and there is an element of the potential avenues for future employment specialising in the transgender population. I just have no intention of applying for those roles, same as there are other areas of the profession that don't interest me at all and I wouldn't apply for.

I've had to deal on an individual basis with some service users identifying as the opposite gender and actually it's quite easy - you just treat them as a person, call them by their name (which avoids all the pronoun juggling) and be the same as you would with anyone else. Same as those who have horrific offending backgrounds, or present with very challenging behaviour - they have the same rights to be treated as an individual as anyone else. You keep the game face on, you learn from what you're doing and you go away and reflect on it in your mind and sort it all out - and use what you've learnt to help direct where you might want to end up in your career.

I'm hugely gender critical and I'm a practice nurse. Apart from the odd testosterone or leuprorelin injection for a couple of trans patients, it barely comes up. Aside from using their preferred names and pronouns, which is easy enough, I treat them the same as I would anyone of their sex. Eg transmen get offered smears and transwomen don't. We do have trans identifying children, but I have only seen them for unrelated things.

Most of our GPs are not captured by the movement (in fact many are very confused by it all and feel woefully out of their depth, but they try their best) and are just as gender critical as you or I. It is possible to do your job well and be compassionate without agreeing with your patients' ideology. I have treated people with beliefs I find offensive, people who have hurt others etc. It's all part of the job.

It isn't about you.

please be aware that some children (those with endocrine issues and precocious puberty for example) may require puberty blockers for reasons totally unrelated to gender (to allow their body to continue growing, prevent sexual maturity in a young child etc).

The problem is not the drug, it's what it's being used for.

The NHS offers health care for all, regardless of their gender identity, lifestyle choices etc.

That's the job you'd be accepting & if you can't agree to provide health care to those people, without judgement, the NHS isn't for you.

I’ll bite.

I’m a nurse, I have my own views on a lot of things but I would never for a second let my own judgements or opinions influence patient care. I have a lot of contact with prisoners in my role, some of whom have done some horrible things, but I give them the care they need because that’s what I trained to do. If you can’t do that, don’t train.

@DdraigGoch

Oh right - thanks for enlightening me.

I very much doubt that the OP will be traumatised by the ethical dillemmas you give examples of. Forced to be part of a cover-up? Really? Is that a common occurence?

Maybe it's not about her views. Maybe no one gives a toss what she thinks.

My husband has had to anaesthetise a double murderer hours after he committed the most awful crimes, healthcare is a job where you’ve got to remove your own opinions from what you’re doing. Maybe it’s not the job for you, the healthcare workers I know are immensely compassionate and non judgemental.

Trans people suffer enough prejudice as it is, the last place they need it is a setting where they are at their most vulnerable.

And to the ITU nurse who posted earlier, the behaviour of those nurses was absolutely atrocious. Were any complaints made to the ITU lead? Disgusting behaviour when the patient was so vulnerable.

[quote anotherbrewplease]@DdraigGoch

Oh right - thanks for enlightening me.

I very much doubt that the OP will be traumatised by the ethical dillemmas you give examples of. Forced to be part of a cover-up? Really? Is that a common occurence?

Maybe it's not about her views. Maybe no one gives a toss what she thinks.[/quote]
It doesn't matter how common it is, though search for "NHS whistleblower" and you will find loads of cases where those who speak out on a variety of issues (medical malpractice, mismanagement, sexual misconduct etc.) have been victimised and bullied.

There is though the potential of a serious ethical dilemma however, where providing services in the way instructed by your superiors will cause harm to either that patient, or to other patients. If a competent adult wishes to take hormones, fine, that's on them. A homosexual teenager who is being bullied into reassignment by their homophobic parents? Would you really press on? A male patient placed in a female bay who later commits an assault, could you lie to the other patients?

In practice, such scenarios will be unusual as you are implying, so I'd suggest that providing that the OP would treat a trans patient with the same respect she'd give any other (and she hasn't said that she wouldn't), she should go ahead and only actually worry about these scenarios if they crop up - many nurses will never have any more interaction with a trans person than a flu jab or changing a dressing. Things are moving fast at the moment and it is likely that the rules will change first anyway. If the OP does ever end up being placed in an impossible position, she could always resign.

@EIisheva

Why don’t you just self identify as a doctor and give yourself a wee leg up?

😂😂😂

Will you have much to do with it? You obviously won’t be prescribing or making treatment decisions about this. Would your role largely be checkups and the provision of non-related health care? If so you’d need to be able to provide that safely and professionally no matter what your opinion of the treatment commenced/continued by other health care practitioners.

You would of course need to keep your opinions to yourself, and use the patient’s preferred name and pronouns. If that’s not possible then you won’t be able to work.

I'm a nurse in the NHS and would probably be described as gender-critical I guess. I think it's crazy that people can self-identify.

I've met a hanful of patients who have opted to live as the opposite sex. One of them hadn't had surgery or hormones or anything. I was very young and it made me uncomfortable because the person still looked like what they were biologically but had just changed their name. I've since met this person again in work and they are back living as their biological sex. In that setting, I never even mentioned it as it was irrelevant to the care I was providing. I've looked after another patient who had been through hormone surgery and treatment a very long time ago. You honestly couldn't tell that they hadn't been born as that sex. This was relevant to why I was seeing this patient so we did have a bit of a chat about what they'd been through. It was actually quite fascinating and the patient was very open about it all.

I did actually talk to a patient about religion once. It was during a night shift and he couldn't sleep. The rest of the ward was quiet so we just chatted for a bit. He was a jehovahs witness so I asked him about the blood issue. Again, I do not share those views but it was an interesting discussion. I would probably struggle more with someone who was prepared to die than accept a blood transfusion than I would seeing a man in my clinic who wanted me to call him Jane. I wouldn't chose to work somewhere where I was actively involved in the process of gender reassignment. I've been nursing for over 15 years, it is not a big issue in my professional life at all.

Yes, nurses are expected to administer hormone injections to transgender patients. That's what I found out through watching youtube videos - that's the main reason for the post really. Is don't mind injecting adults, I take it they understand the risk, but under 18s? No, I don't think I would be able to. Cross-sex hormones can be prescribed from age 16.

Sorry, the above message was meant to be a reply to someone...I'm new to mumsnet so still learning