Should I enter the NHS as a trainee nurse if I am gender critical?

[Balicious]

I have been offered a place on a nursing degree apprenticeship within a GP surgery. Since I applied I have watched YouTube videos that GP nurses have posted in relation to the trans healthcare they have to provide. It appears the NHS is pro-trans and since the scandal came out about the rape on a NHS ward and the gaslighting of a patient following this assault, I am rethinking entering the NHS at all. Please help! I am deeply concerned about gender ideology and the effects it is having on women and children. I must admit I would struggle to treat anyone under the age of 18 with hormone blockers/hormonal injections. Will I struggle in the NHS with these views? Am I nursing material or should I reconsider? Honest opinions will be greatly appreciated.

I'm GC and work in a GP practice. I treat the person and their symptoms and not their ideology. No different that treating religious people really even though all the medicalisation etc really winds me up. You keep schtum, it's fine plus this craze will be out of fashion in a few years.

@RebeccaCloud9

Sometimes you just have to keep your opinions to yourself. I'm a teacher and gender critical and (although I post on Mon) I wouldn't share my views on Twitter or FB or it would affect my job. In the same way I wouldn't swear or post drunken pictures etc. I haven't ever come across a child or parent irl who is trans. If I did, I would treat them with respect. I would vocally disagree with certain things eg putting pronouns on name badges (not necessary, I'm Mrs anyway) or not being allowed to use gendered terms eg boys and girls. But beyond that, my gender critical views are separate from my job.

Thanks for your reply. Surely you can't compare being concerned about treating under 18s with cross-sex hormones (available from the age of 16 in the UK), to swearing or posting drunk photos? This isn't a silly opinion I share with my friends in private.

I am considering training to become a healthcare professional that has a duty of care to patients.
I have genuine, evidence based concerns, (e.g. Cass report), about the effects this ideology is having on both women and young children. The first rule of medicine is do no harm but we don't have enough data on the long term effects of this treatment to know we aren't harming people.
It goes without saying I would treat patients with respect and I certainly wouldn't, nor would I want to, deny any adult hormone treatment, (you can only hope they have researched the risks (of which there are many), and made an educated decision. I am concerned about under 18s and also allowing males on female only wards with extremely vulnerable women.

@Nutellaonall

I work for the nhs. I don’t think it massively affects our day to day working lives anymore than it does any other profession.

That's a relief, thank you.

@Spaghettipie1

I'm an NHS nurse with similar views, I treat everyone with the same respect and am happy to call people by whatever name they choose and refer to them he/she/they as preferred. other than that it just depends where you work, unless planning on working in specialist areas dealing with trans gender issues/treatment specifically it has never involved more than that for me. It's about treating everyone as an individual, not being pro/anti anything in my experience. You might also have to treat people with criminal pasts, murderers/rapists, people who are nasty/abusive. that's way more difficult to accept and look past. Many challenges but a great job.

Thanks for your reply. It's not about the individual. I'm sure the majority of trans-identifying individuals are lovely. I understand the importance of person-centred care and would never judge an individual patient for their choices. If I felt prejudice towards any single group of people, I would never have considered nursing as a career, that's for sure! My question was regarding the NHS and how severely the organisation has been affected by this ideology in terms of their treatment of vulnerable children and women. The cross-sex hormone treatments for under 18s (that GP nurses are expected to administer according to nurses on youtube), and wards becoming increasingly mix-sex. I guess my worry is, that there will be a huge backlash one day when patients such as Kiera Bell, and the poor victims of the recent assaults that have taken place on wards, seek compensation for their treatment. Will the doctors and nurses that were treating these patients be held accountable for the possible harm caused? I don't want to be involved in experimental treatment with no solid evidence base. It's a concern that honestly worries me.

@DdraigGoch

Unless you actually get a job at the Tavistock, you're unlikely to end up doing any 'care' which would prickle your conscience in that way.

What's more concerning is the prospect of being ordered to lie to patients about who is in the next bed. Putting patients at risk but being unable to speak out would trouble me greatly. The NHS is a very dysfunctional organisation and reacts to whistleblowers particularly badly.

Precisely!

I simply wouldn't be able to lie to patients. I plan to treat every patient the same way I would care for a member of my own family, (that sounds trite but I think it's a good way to measure whether you're delivering acceptable treatment or not). I wouldn't lie to my Mum about being on a mix-sex ward so why should I lie to someone else's Mother?

@KohlaParasaurus

I am GC and work in health care, am open about the fact that I don't believe humans can change sex, and it has never been a problem. Provided you treat everyone with respect and professionalism you are likely to be fine. Dilemmas like transwomen on female inpatient wards are uncommon.

(Our local obstetrics and gynaecology unit is called Women's Outpatients. This makes me ridiculously happy.)

That's good to hear, thanks

@hazelnutlatte

I am GC and I am a nurse in a GP practice. It's not an issue. We have some trans patients, I treat them with respect, the same as I would treat any patient. I use preferred pronouns etc because it would be rude and disrespectful not to. If you feel you can't do this then nursing is not the career for you. If however, you are just concerned about providing treatment specifically for gender transition then all you need to do is not work in a specialist gender transition service. GP practices do not provide this treatment. We do have a few patients with 'shared care' agreements - this means they have their blood tests with us, to save them from traveling long distances to the gender identity clinic, but the hormone treatments are provided by the specialists.

Thanks for this. I had watched youtube videos posted by nurses and I was under the impression that hormone injections would need to be administered by GP nurses. I must admit I'm relieved. As per my other responses, it's the treatment for under 18s and the lying to vulnerable patients I am most concerned about.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I'm as GC as they come but it shouldn't matter in terms of patients and the care you deliver. I am nothing but respectful and supportive of teenagers I work with who believe they're the wrong sex - I know they need compassionate adults who focus on the whole child and their needs, not activists virtue signalling or imposing their own political views on them. To my mind, the challenges will be just as in schools, ensuring that all the Stonewall flag flyers don't drown out all the rational balanced adults delivering our roles - be it medicine or education. It's good to think critically and it's scary out there at the moment if you believe in safeguarding children as a priority. However, the interim report from the Cass Review demonstrating the appalling standards of unevidenced medical care offered to such vulnerable children will result in changes quite quickly. Medicine needs critical intelligent thinkers, able to prioritise patent needs, not lobby group demands. Good luck.

Thank you for your balanced and thoughtful reply. I hope you're right regarding the effects the Cass Review will have on patient care in the future!

@KELLOGSspeck

Have you got any type of support work or care experience OP?

If not I would do this BEFORE applying for nursing it's a bloody hard slog! There's lots of unusual things you will see as a nurse.... but you have to put it aside.

I do yes lots. I am under no illusion as to how demanding the role will be.

@TheGreatATuin

Interesting responses. The OP didn't say she didn't want to treat trans people or implied anything about not treating them with dignity, yet somehow that's what's been leapt on.

There are serious considerations here for NHS staff and there have been a large number of incidents where staff have been put in a very difficult position.

Take the many whistleblowers at the Tavistock. I think that's 35 resignations now?
Someone upthread mentioned that it would be 'unkind' to refuse treatment to a trans teenager.
What if that teenager was the one who had said that 'my mum wants this more than me', or one of those who came out as trans after being bullied for a lesbian and that mum was one of the openly homophobic parents mentioned in the review?
There's nothing kind about giving irreversible medical treatment to a teenager who doesn't want it and is only agreeing because of homophobia from their peers and parents.
Or if you're one of those clinicians who were told not to raise concerns with the safeguarding lead?

Or take the recent case of a woman who was raped on a single sex ward and told that it couldn't have happened because there were 'no men' on the ward? If you're the nurse who is expected to tell a woman she wasn't raped because NHS policy said it couldn't have happened?

I would find it very difficult to turn a blind eye to any of those scenarios, all of which have actually happened.

This isn't about refusing treatment to trans people or refusing to treat them with dignity. It's about medical professionals being put in a position where they have to go directly against their medical judgment.

Another analogy is a nurse working in one of the hospitals overseas that perform FGM on girls. Is she supposed to say 'it's my job' and wash her hands of it because she was respectful and kind to the girl on the post-op ward?

This isn't about the OP not being kind or not wanting to treat trans people. It's about being worried about having to go ahead with treatment that is clearly bad for the patient and having to enforce policies that go against safeguarding.

OP, it's difficult to tell someone else what to do with something like this, but I do know that the NHS needs nurses who will genuinely put their patients first and not look the other way in cases of medical malpractice or safeguarding concerns.

Wow, thank you so much! I've only just read your response and I think you are one of the very few who understood what I meant in my original post! I realise I worded my question very poorly, so thank you for expressing my thoughts far more eloquently!

I've already responded to others with my thoughts on the responses so I won't repeat myself but just wanted to thank you for expressing these legitimate concerns.

I have an ominous suspicion that the integration of the transgender ideology within the NHS will be the final nail in the coffin for this much loved institution. How many more scandals can the NHS take? The Stafford Hospital scandal, The Redfern Report and now today the Ockenden maternity report. We are already seeing evidence of legal action being taken against the NHS owing to the Tavistock and assaults against women on supposedly female only wards. The recent Cass Review was damning.

The principle of 'do no harm' is being put at risk in the NHS; in the past it has been linked to cost saving measures or neglect, but this is the first time it is under threat owing to an ideology.

@Boscoforever

We do Open University in our trust, where staff can train as a nurse whilst working as an auxiliary in their own ward/dept. So I would say it is definitely a thing. OP, you will learn all about how to understand and deal with this stuff in your training. Do it!! Best job in the world.

Thank you xx

@Cuck00soup

Will I struggle in the NHS with these views? No. The thing about trained health professionals is that they know a thing or two about biology. You might not be able to be as open as you wish but please don't think the NHS is full of believers. Am I nursing material or should I reconsider? Could you care for someone who is trans or is questioning their identity with respect and dignity, taking into account that they may have had a complex history? Most trans people aren't angry activists, and most want to draw as little attention to themselves as possible. The rape was appalling, as were the lies told afterwards but don't allow yourself to think this rare assault is a regular occurrence.

Thank you. Sometimes when you read lots of negative news stories you do start to wonder why you applied for the job in the first place! But then I think of my own experiences of working within the NHS to date and they don't mirror the scandals that I read about in the papers. I treat all patients with respect and dignity - my poorly worded question wasn't about individuals but really but how how the NHS operates as a whole on the issue. Think I've been spending too much time on online recently and I think it's maybe knocked my confidence in the NHS a bit. It is so nice to be reassured that my positive working experience might be the rule as opposed to the exception.

Hi OP. I am a registered Nurse.

To be a nurse you have to treat people with dignity and respect irrelevant of their gender, sexuality, race, religion, social status, job, criminal past, anything….

I have nursed convicted paedophiles. Does this mean I agree with what they’ve done? Of course not!!!!!!!!! But it is not my place to judge.

It is not your place as a nurse to judge either.

Please read the NMC code of conduct and if you don’t think you can work in accordance with it then consider another career.

I can only assume you haven't read any of my responses. Please read the thread before commenting next time, thanks.

@Balicious I read them all

Please read the NMC end RCNs current work on supporting transgender patients.

Disclosing a patients gender identity is a breach of confidentiality and in some cases can be criminally prosecuted.

www.rcn.org.uk/-/media/royal-college-of-nursing/documents/publications/2020/november/009-430.pdf?la=en

Nurses can only object to partaking in treatment of patients in two areas: abortion and IVF.

www.nmc.org.uk/standards/code/conscientious-objection-by-nurses-and-midwives/

Would you treat a trans patient any different to any other patient? If yes then it’s the wrong profession for you.

Many doctors and nurses treat people in ways that go against their personal ideals and beliefs, but they can separate personal ideals from professional behaviour. Anyone who works for the nhs should accept people as they are - but we all know that doesn’t always happen.