to get obsessed with unfairness

[Ceci03]

so I'm tired of fighting for fairness. I asked my boss today if I could work 8am to 4pm (instead of 9am to 5pm), There are 6 of us in the team and 3 people already work 8-4, by request. I said I would only leave at 4 if there was someone in who is working til 5pm - i.e. I would be flexible and asked to just do it if there is someone there. I am often left on my own from 4pm to 5pm if I'm on the rota with the people who are working 8-4. I honestly didn't think it would be a problem. We have the use of a free car park for a few months - leftover from covid, - and I've been driving in, which is a lot quicker than public transport, and less chance of catching covid, but I do have to be in by 7.30am to get a space, so I've been wandering in, getting a coffee and starting work usually around 8.30, getting a headstart on the day, which is fine. Colleagues were saying to me I should just ask to leave at 4 as I'm in so early so today I bit the bullet and asked. And was immediately shut down. She referred me to my contract - from 2.5 years ago - which apparently says I have to work 9-5 (I checked it later and it doesnt mention this), she also said she has to put the 'business needs' of the team first, and I need to be there from 4-5. She said other things, like how I need to officially apply for flexible working. When I pointed out that in the policy it says that local managers have discretion for temporary arrangements, she said she had made her decision. I'm finding it really hard to let it go. Obsessing about why she is unfair. I need to just let it go and get over it, but I'm finding it really hard, especially as I get older, to let this kind of unfairness go. I need to though I know that. Life is unfair and that's life. It really bugs me that I take pride in my work, and even last week worked late when I got home, to meet a deadline, and had everythign ready to go on the Friday morning. no acknowledgement of that, or offer of time in lieu, or any mention of it at all. I know, I chose to do that, as I wanted to meet the deadline. But it's just hard when you ask for some flexibility in return, and it's immediately denied. WIsh I could switch off my brain now though.

Why would she let you change your hours? If you work 5 days, you're giving them at least 2.5 hours free per week. Do as your manager suggest and apply for flexible working if you want to change your working hours.

Because, it says in the policy that you should have the agreement of your manager before applying for flexible working as it is at their discretion, and will be agreed only if you have your manager's approval for the request, and she has already said she is not going to allow it! It's a catch-22. She refers me to the official policy, and advises me to make an application so she can deny it. Plus I don't want it to be a permanent forever change, I'm just asking for some flexibility so I can make use of the free car parking while it lasts - which will probably only be a couple of months. And the policy says exactly that, that there are "local and ad hoc arrangements regarding temporary changes to working hours which can be agreed with your manager and do not require an official flexible working request".

Yeah you're right magnolia, they are getting a lot of free hours out of me, which makes me even madder, but I can't help myself as I want to get all my work done on time to a good standard. I'm my own worst enemy. I guess even at 53 I'm still surprised how small and mean people can be to each other. It would be nothing to her to just say "ok", it would have no meaningful impact on anyone except make my life easier for a few months. I mean, WHY.

Stop doing work outwith your 9-5. Why go above and beyond for an employer who doesn't give a shiny shit about you?

It isn't fair though you are right. I struggle with stuff like this too, ADHD makes me get a bit upset (understatement) when I see or experience unjust/unfair things.

Your manager was being extremely petty and controlling.

Can I ask how old this person is?

I totally understand OP my work place is like that which is one of the many reasons I'm leaving, its one rule for some and another for others. Sorry I can't offer any practical advice but I will say don't fall into the same trap I did where you stay longer and take work home because it then becomes expected and cheeky fuckers take the piss. Going forward OP only work the hours you're paid to and when your manager wants a favour answer NO. My ex manager started putting me in for overtime without asking because I usually said yes then when I wanted a favour I was told no yet my manager would do stuff for others and let them have half days if they did double shifts yet I was told I was "needed more than my colleagues" so I couldn't have a half day. I stopped doing anyone favours after that including double shifts or covering othet people's shifts. My ex manager got a shock when I told her no the first time and kept it up. She eventually pulled me in for a private chat and tried to bollock me for not being a team player and going the extra mile so I responded with "I was happy to do that until everyone took advantage and started expecting it. If you want me to go the extra mile then you need to lead by example, its not one rule for me and another for everyone else and if this continues I will be making a complaint as that's singling me out and trying to bully me into doing overtime and extra work when no one else is expected to do it and legally I don't have to work more hours than the 35 hours my contract states!" She did get her karma though the nasty cow ended up being made redundant so they could get someone to her job on a cheaper wage and she was so upset that no one bought her a card or leaving present after everything she did for them. I said to her "I bet you wish you hadn't bothered doing them favours now huh?" And walked away, petty yes but she was so unfair and always playing favourites it served her right to see they didn't give a fuck and used her for what they could get. Your manager will soon learn when she needs a favour off you and the answer is no its very freeing op when you don't give a fuck lol

6 on the team, 3 work 8-4, 3 work 9-5.

That’s sensible, isn’t it?

thanks @WickedWitchOfTheEast87. I keep having these convos in my head where I have great one-liners and finally put her in her place.

She's about 45 - married no kids, if it makes any difference.

She even started saying that I had been specifically appointed to cover another colleague's hours - wtf, this colleague has not been in work for over a year, on maternity and sick leave. Plus, this colleague worked 9-5, so I can't see any relevance? How was I 'covering her hours' when we worked the same hours? It's just excuses which don't even make sense.

Another thing bugging me, is my immediate colleague - also under this manager - is always sucking up to her. She works part-time but always ends up working from home on her 'days off'. She doesnt like the manager, and feels resentful, but is so nice to her face and sucks up to her so much, nobody would ever know how she really feels. I don't know why she does it. She sympathises with me, and was the one egging me on to ask her could I do 8-4 but then is best pals with the manager, even though she heard what she said to me. I wish I could put on as good an act as she does.

@HeddaGarbled

6 on the team, 3 work 8-4, 3 work 9-5.

That’s sensible, isn’t it?

yeah but why cant she be a teeny bit flexible for me? the others don't have a problem with it, they feel it's unfair to me. We're facing the worst cost of living crisis in my lifetime, and if I can save a few pounds on parking/travelling to work, for a few months, and it doesnt affect anyone, could she not just say "ok". Plus how come they all get to work 8-4 - is that fair? Just cos they asked first? And I'm not even asking anyone to change their hours, I will cover for them if I'm the only person on 9-5 that day, but is there a need for all 3 of us, or 2 of us to be there from 4-5 when I'm often left on my own for that hour? Is that not petty?

In fact 2 out of 3 (obviously not herself, as she works 8-4 and will never stay until 5pm) have offered to take turns with me, as they feel bad that they are allowed to leave at 4 if they come in at 8, but I'm not. I said no to them, that I wouldn't even expect that, only if there were people there anyway until 5, which would allow me to leave at 4 IUKWIM

@Ceci03 don't trust that colleague she sounds two faced and like she's shit stirring, actually I wouldn't be surprised if she's been telling your manager you've been slagging her off to get some special treatment and maybe thats why your manager is being petty and unfair because she's probably been told you were saying it. Next time your colleague slags your manager off say to her "I'm really not interested in what you think of her if it bothers you that much go and say it to her face" she'll soon backtrack when she sees her manipulative tactics aren't working.

Age and management experience matter in these situations. Lack of flexibility and micro-managing are red flags of poor training.

Ultimately, what are your core hours?

Never heard of them being 9 - 5.

Usually its something like 10 - 2 (or similar)

Its very odd not to accomodate such an request (from 9 - 5 to 8 - 4)

This does not require a flexible work request.

That is more along the lines of working 4 days for 9 hrs/day instead of 5 days at 7hrs/day. Thats a material change for the business (usually).

Sounds like a manager with poor skills to be perfectly honest.

@WickedWitchOfTheEast87 thanks I don't know why I am so f trusting and gullible at my age. I just trust that people are "good" underneath, but so many aren't. I gave this manager so many chances in my head, when she said inappropriate things, and yes Bambina, she really does need some training in people management. There is a lot of resentment in the team, but the others hide it well - they are probably wise, they know that ultimately she has power, so they keep her sweet. I find it so hard to be fake. I can't hide my feelings which has gotten me into trouble in work situations. I just want to find a 'nice' job with decent people. Keep coming across these petty people who have some kind of power complex though.

Don’t work a minute over your hours. Get in for 9 and leave at 5 on the dot. Don’t take on or fix the work of others just pass it to your manager to fix. If she can’t be flexible with you, just stop all flexibility with her.

She even started saying that I had been specifically appointed to cover another colleague's hours - wtf, this colleague has not been in work for over a year, on maternity and sick leave. Plus, this colleague worked 9-5, so I can't see any relevance? How was I 'covering her hours' when we worked the same hours? It's just excuses which don't even make sense

“Cover her hours” means work the hours she would have worked if she was there, so that bit makes sense. That’s what ‘cover’ is - a replacement for someone who is absent. Were you appointed to replace her while she was on maternity and sick leave?

@Ozanj

Don’t work a minute over your hours. Get in for 9 and leave at 5 on the dot. Don’t take on or fix the work of others just pass it to your manager to fix. If she can’t be flexible with you, just stop all flexibility with her.

This is exactly what happens when poor managers clamp down ln reasonable requests.

People will stop going the extra mile. They will come in at 9 on the dot, and leave at 5 on the dot.

In the end, its the company that loses out.

@Ozanj

Don’t work a minute over your hours. Get in for 9 and leave at 5 on the dot. Don’t take on or fix the work of others just pass it to your manager to fix. If she can’t be flexible with you, just stop all flexibility with her.

@Ceci03 Ozanj has it right in a nutshell. If I were you I would also carry out any communication with your manager over email that way you have a paper trail and evidence of her being unfair and piss poor management skills. Also any meetings you have with her email a request for the minutes of that meeting and don't sign your name to anything you don't agree with. Any requests you make always email because your manager can deny anything that was said or agreed verbally. Don't do any favours for anyone and no more being flexible for your manager she needs to learn the lesson that when you take advantage and refuse to compromise and be flexible with your employees you can't expect them to do the same for you.

@HeddaGarbled

She even started saying that I had been specifically appointed to cover another colleague's hours - wtf, this colleague has not been in work for over a year, on maternity and sick leave. Plus, this colleague worked 9-5, so I can't see any relevance? How was I 'covering her hours' when we worked the same hours? It's just excuses which don't even make sense

“Cover her hours” means work the hours she would have worked if she was there, so that bit makes sense. That’s what ‘cover’ is - a replacement for someone who is absent. Were you appointed to replace her while she was on maternity and sick leave?

"Cover her hours" is just her working hours.

Thats 8hrs/day with 1hr for lunch.

Nornal working hours are 9 - 5, but these are not set in stone in any contract that I have ever seen.

It sounds like your manager is thinking about business needs - as she's supposed to. If you're frequently in the office on your own from 4 - 5 and the office needs coverage I can see why she doesn't want to adjust another employee's hours to lower coverage for that time frame. Having 4 people with official hours of 8 - 4 and 2 people on 9 - 5 would not be sensible. Even with other 8 - 4'ers offering to cover I can also see why she might not want to have a complicated rota of people subbing in for the last hour. It's not "unfair" for her to have given the 8 - 4 slots to the people who asked first. There are other ways she could have done it, but if more people want those hours than the others there's going to be someone disappointed. First ask isn't a terrible way to do that.

Have you tried asking for some other accomodation to make up for the lack of parking?

If you don't get anything, you should think about your needs and start looking for a job that pays more and has lower expenses. It's a job hunter's market at the moment. When you get an offer you can either try negotiating that into the hours you want (and a pay rise?) or take the new job.

get in at 8.30 or whenever you need to park - and make it perfectly obvious that you are reading a book/newspaper/listening to a podcast on earphones/whatever and not starting work until 9am.

At a broader level the older I get the more I become aware how much unfairness there is in the world and how relationships are so influential in who has power. I am finding it harder to let things go.

I see that she said the needs of the business mean she needs to ensure there is always someone there until 5. Do your colleagues do the same role as you? If a client rang at 4.30 could any of them respond as you would?

If TOIL is used in your company then she could allow you to occasionally have an afternoon off for doing 8/8.30-5 if you absolutely have to be there until 5.

This sounds inflexible, is it a customer service type of job where you have to man a Helpdesk?

I don't agree that it's unfair she denied your request; her response sounds valid to me, and she told you that you should make an official request. It doesn't sound reasonable that you should ask to change your hours in a casual way, and expect an immediate answer. I can see the problems that might arise in a few months when she may want you to go back to 9 - 5. Hence making an official request.

The way she handled it doesn't sound great, either though.

The issue of you doing additional work that isn't recognised is a separate one. You should let her know that, clearly and distinguish between you starting work early because you are in early, and the work that you did to get a task done.

Starting work early is your own decision. As a manager, I have to say sometimes to people 'you weren't asked to do that'.

However, if you worked late on a task, the reasons for that should be addressed, especially if it's more than once, and a good manager will do this.

I do get your frustration, but your posts sound a little immature to me.

I didn’t see a mention of it above, but are you in a union? I would formally apply for the flexible working regardless and somehow fit on the form that you are willing to stay if the only one left ect (to make you look extra reasonable when she refuses) then I would broach it with the union. I agree with not doing a thing extra for them though as it is unfair really.