If 'commoners' can marry into the royal family - why have a 'royal' family -

[HacketteofHacks]

I totally respect the Queen and think she's been largely a force for good...
But at work we were talking about the tour that's on now.. my boss pointed out the the definition of a royal family was that its lineage is 'predetermined by God'.
Well that is archaic in itself - my boss (who is no royalist) the. pointed out that once members of a royal family marry commoners they lose this 'untouchable special-Ness'.
I think he had a good point...
He's from Jamaica so hence we were all having the conversation .

I can see Charles' reign being pretty rocky. He doesn't have anything like the Queens personal skills and experience and that will be very obvious very quickly. A longer lead in would have helped

Considering the time he's been waiting I'm not sure how much longer the "lead in" could have been?

For me at least the problem seems to be not the timescale, but what he's done in it and how little he's learned from his mother's example around constitutional matters and just plain shutting up

Considering the time he's been waiting I'm not sure how much longer the "lead in" could have been?

I mean actually doing the job. 70 something is awfully late to start the thing your life's been leading up to. I think it would have benefitted him to have been king with the retired Queen in the background to give advice.

Of course it may have made no difference

Ah, I see what you mean Keating, though with the Queen apparently against formal retirement it seems he'll be waiting still longer

Which for monarchists may be no bad thing ...

Re Prince Charles becoming king.... I doubt somehow that the respect given to HMQ whether you like her or not, will transfer to her son on his accession to the throne.

There is anger and indifference amongst many re the RF, but while HMQ is alive it is kept buttoned I think.

What do others think?, will Charles command the same respect as HMQ, and will his reign be the beginning of the end for the RF, well maybe for the interest in and respect towards it that exists purely for the sake of HMQ at the moment.

@Myee

Re Prince Charles becoming king.... I doubt somehow that the respect given to HMQ whether you like her or not, will transfer to her son on his accession to the throne.

There is anger and indifference amongst many re the RF, but while HMQ is alive it is kept buttoned I think.

What do others think?, will Charles command the same respect as HMQ, and will his reign be the beginning of the end for the RF, well maybe for the interest in and respect towards it that exists purely for the sake of HMQ at the moment.

I don't think he'll remotely get the same respect as HMQ does, but I don't think his reign will be long enough to destabilise the monarchy enough to end it.

I don't think he'll antagonise enough people to bring about the political/system reform that would be needed to end the monarchy.

@Myee I agree. I definitely don’t think he’s held in much regard at all. I think he’s in for a very rocky time. His brother and son are both embroiled in controversy, his wife isn’t much liked, he’s dull as fuck, other countries are already starting to break away from the royals. Jamaica looks like it’ll be next - it’ll be interesting how long it takes for Oz to follow.

@JustLyra interesting point - he’ll be lucky to make two decades i guess 🤷‍♀️.

will Charles command the same respect as HMQ, and will his reign be the begging of the end for the RF, well maybe for the interest in and respect towards it that exists purely for the sake of HMQ at the moment.

Whenever there's a discussion on here about the RF there's always a number of posters who say that they have respect for the Queen but never explain why?

What has she actually done to earn their respect?

She's lived and enjoyed a long privileged live in which she been given the best of everything.

She's indulged her very expensive hobbies and lived in fabulous palaces.

Is this something to respect her for?

She's travelled to various places here and abroad waving to the masses and asking a few questions of a few specially selected people.

She has a weekly meeting with the prime minister and attends several ceremonious occasions throughout the year.

It's hardly a life of unrelenting hard work.

What is it about her and what she does that some people find so respect worthy?

@pigsDOfly I’ve asked that a few times and no one has answered! Although tbf the vast majority of people on this thread are Republicans so not many are going to say anything positive about Liz!

Re respect for HMQ, I think she is seen as the elder lemon, of the old school, who keeps her mouth shut and doesn't put her foot in it. She has been there forever so people know no different. She hasn't changed one bit, and has carefully crafted the gift of saying nothing at all. No one knows much about her as a person. That is deliberate, in order to enshroud her in an air of mystery and monarchy.

Also those who are monarchists are (in general) of her generation. The next generation is not so good at tugging the forelock, but for now will keep their counsel out of maybe kindness to HM. I agree she has done nothing to really earn respect, and is a wily old bird who hides behind her throne.

But I don't think people will stay quiet regarding Charles. If the media turn on him it's all over. And as for William well he is no example of a hard working, intelligent, vibrant future King is he. I think the monarchy is nearing its natural end, and whilst I know that is not going to happen constitutionally for a long long time, it will happen by osmosis via the people who won't give a damn about them anymore.

This thread is so refreshing, the overwhelming majority of posts are full of critical thinking and intelligent analysis, with only the odd forelock tugger post thrown in here and there for good measure (and always entertaining to see these silly posters destroyed by the clever MN republicans).

It has to be abundantly clear to even the most staunch monarchist that the tide has turned and the RF’s days are numbered.

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

[quote IKnowYouDontTurnTheLightOn]@JustLyra interesting point - he’ll be lucky to make two decades i guess 🤷‍♀️.[/quote]
Even if he was to make a full two decades he won't be the full public face for the whole time - like the Queen he'd have to start slowing down before that. So, maybe ten/fifteen 'good' years at most I'd say. I don't think that's long enough to finish off the monarchy.

The average age of dying in his parents and grandparents (obviously so far given HMQ could last another week or decade!) is 83, 88 if you remove George VI due to him being a heavy smoker.

No medical training or psychic powers at all, but I just don't get the feeling he's going to match his parents in longevity. He just doesn't look as healthy as they did at his age. I think he's indulged in the good food and good life far more than they did and that will have a toll.

If William takes over in 15 or years he'll only be 55/60 - that's going to give much more time to cock things up than his father will get.

*15 or 20 years

I don't think he'll remotely get the same respect as HMQ does, but I don't think his reign will be long enough to destabilise the monarchy enough to end it.

I think the reverse ... another coronation so soon after his (10 years ?) would just revive this discussion + time....

It has to be abundantly clear to even the most staunch monarchist that the tide has turned and the RF’s days are numbered

Statistics don’t support that view. And wait for the outpouring of grief when the Queen dies, that will see an upturn in support for the monarchy. Despite the vociferous republicanism on MN, it’s definitely not representative of the UK population.

www.statista.com/statistics/863893/support-for-the-monarchy-in-britain-by-age/

I see the Dutch royal family are putting up 30 Ukranians (or families) in one of their spare palaces.
I won't hold my breath

@AnIconOfImperfections

This thread is so refreshing, the overwhelming majority of posts are full of critical thinking and intelligent analysis, with only the odd forelock tugger post thrown in here and there for good measure (and always entertaining to see these silly posters destroyed by the clever MN republicans).

It has to be abundantly clear to even the most staunch monarchist that the tide has turned and the RF’s days are numbered.

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Critical thinking, using Russia and The US as an example. The country that had Trump as a president whilst also shooting one in the head whilst on a presidential parade.

And the suggestion to use Royal estates to house refugee's is ridiculous.
Carry on.

One of main issues if the lack of understanding of what a nation state with a sovereign head represents.

@Hrpuffnstuff1 odd that you ignore all the very valid examples of thriving and successful presidential systems.

What does a nation state with a sovereign head represent then? Do enlighten us with your wisdom.

And why is using royal estates to house refugees ridiculous? If they’re no longer needed they’ll be empty - why not put them to good use? I’m obviously being slightly facetious but it just highlights the obscenity of the situation.

The queen has said she no longer wants to live in the recently refurbished Buckingham Palace. So I don't see why it couldn't be turned over to refugees. I realise a lot of it would be impractical but I'm sure it could be used for emergency accommodation.

And the suggestion to use Royal estates to house refugee's is ridiculous.

Why's that then? The Dutch are doing it?

One of main issues if the lack of understanding of what a nation state with a sovereign head represents.

And what's that? What's so different about a head of state that just happened to fall out of the right vagina?

There’s also the travesty that is the Duchy of Cornwall

Mirrored by the monarch's personal wallet - The Duchy of Lancaster.

Statistics don’t support that view. And wait for the outpouring of grief when the Queen dies, that will see an upturn in support for the monarch

Unfortunately I may have to concede this point. The numbers happily sucking up the syrup despite being presented with overwhelmingly contradictory evidence even on MN supports it.

I do however think the tide will turn when our thin-skinned, petulant king-in-waiting finally takes the leading reins.

The grief could be interesting - a lot of it is massively overblown by the media. Lots of complaints about the ridiculous coverage of the old racist Phil 🤷‍♀️.

It is an interesting topic, that AFAIS hasn't descended into mayhem yet.

I'm afraid I don't rate either Charles or William. In fact none of them come up to scratch and we know about Andrew already.

Sadly our taxes are funding a family that is under educated, of average ability and not very charismatic. Not that charisma is the be all and end all, but it does help in connecting with people.

I am sorry to say that they are a bunch of idlers who have achieved absolutely nothing apart from being born into the Firm. It is outrageous when you think of it, at our bloody expense too.

Cutting ribbons and wearing nice frocks and speaking with a plum in your mouth is nothing. And people are beginning to realise the gaslighting that has been going on about them for years.