To feel pissed off with hypnobirthing

[thatsnotmyname33]

Just a rant really.

I have been reading up on hypnobirthing in preparation for my second baby due in the next few weeks. My first birth was quite stressful, lots of interventions and ended with an emergency section so this time I had hoped for a VBAC and was open to the idea of a calmer, more controlled birth like hypnobirthing promotes.

However the more I've read the more it has annoyed me. It doesn't take into account the possibility of complications. The whole narrative is that your body is designed for this and should be able to do it providing you breathe properly and have some nice whale music playing in the background.

I'm probably finding it harder because it's looking likely that another c section could be on the cards for me and I'm sick of reading birth stories about how proud and powerful women felt after birthing 'naturally'. I really wanted that feeling but I want my baby here safely more.

I don't know, I just find it all a bit simplistic and one dimensional, like the only births that really count are the ones that are natural. Am I just being a cow?

Hypnobirthing is just about being as informed as possible and having the tools to stay calm as circumstances unfold. The best you can do is learn about the process and equip yourself with the knowledge to make decisions that are right for you.

It doesn't mean you can control the outcome of your birth, but that at each stage you understand what is happening and are in control of the decision-making process. Research consistently shows that it's not what happens during birth that causes negative outcomes (trauma) but how supported, involved and listened to the person felt. You can have a "natural" birth that leads to trauma because you feel out of control and unsupported, and you can have an emergency c-section that feels calm and positive because you were informed and involved in the process.

It's not about having a natural birth or pain-free birth, and I think you've misunderstood or read some questionable sources if that's what you've taken from it. Staying calm does help reduce pain and that's basic biology. That could really help some people, and can be applied in numerous situations. It's not a magic cure!

We could all read some woo on the internet then blame it for giving us unrealistic expectations.

I think the original concept of hypnobirthing is somewhat skewed depending on the whether it is an actual course you use or just info on the Internet. Initially it was all about and should be about calming techniques to help you stay in control and calm whilst giving both. Those techniques could be applied in a natural birth or a section and many women can and do find them really useful. I used the visualisation techniques in my csection birth to keep my nerves at bay.

I had a baby 6 months ago and may people in my birthing group were first tike mums doing hypnobirthing and had very idealistic views on giving birth, all natural, no drugs, water birth. Well many women would like that but it doesn't always happen because birth is unpredictable. One poster actually said she didn't want to hear anyone else's birth stories if they were negative so mine being sections were clearly out. She didn't get the birth she wanted and is still lamenting it 6 months on yet at the time wasn't willing to even consider that it might not work out the way she wanted and didn't want to hear it from anyone else. Many women in our birth group felt similar to her.

I used the Gentle birth cds for both my pregnancies. First ended in an ECS but I was calm! Second was a gorgeous text book vbac. Not sure where you are but what really helped me was a hospital vbac class to learn their individual policies. For eg I could labour on the ball with a long lead to the monitor. I was lucky I went early, before 39 weeks but the hypnobirthiny kept me calm no matter what happened. Best of luck with your baby. I’m 15 years down the line now! And it seems all consuming to you now but it will work out

She didn't get the birth she wanted and is still lamenting it 6 months on yet at the time wasn't willing to even consider that it might not work out the way she wanted and didn't want to hear it from anyone else. Many women in our birth group felt similar to her.

Yes - in my experience the women who are most vehement about how it's all a huge con and they were lied to and misled before birth are also the only who were very judgy and smug about how they were going to get it all right when they were pregnant. I absolutely feel for anyone who has a traumatic birth but I do think a lot of those women would be very happy to continue to perpetuate narratives about how natural birth is best etc if they could still be the ones who got to have done it 'best' - I don't think it comes from a genuine place of thinking no one should judge.

It depends what you read I think. I had an emcs then tried hypnobirthing for a vbac.

I was realistic that it might not work out though and I put in the birth plan bit in my notes requests for if vbac/if cs is required.

So e.g. if a CS I wanted them to lower the screen to see when baby was born as I was out of it during the emcs.

I read Ina May Gaskin's book
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0553381156/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_4T3BQMNGPPRGDG13FCA8?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 which was very kinda hippy, but interesting.

I used a Natal Hypnotherapy CD, which was specific to vbac.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1910756784/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_FX7ZRN88NYGJ1SKEHXT1?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

And also read the same author Maggie Howell's book Effective Birth Preparation.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1905220596/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_QGZSYWRYTZ3P58YN7XQS?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I like to be thorough 🤣

Overall it did seem to help calm me or change my mindset and I went on to have 2 VBAC which went pretty well.

I totally agree with you.

Used PBC with my first ended up with PTSD after a cascade of interventions at 42+2 ending in an emergency c section (and it really was an emergency regardless of what she says on PBC) and felt totally unprepared.
Used PBC again with my second after my postnatal debrief told me I should be able to VBAC (given certain conditions, my pelvic outlet was measured at the smallest threshold of 'normal' and baby got stuck the first time).
Had to go to a specialist, since my PTSD diagnosis and was advised to have a elective c. Despite the fact that PBC say they are suitable for any birth they really don't give helpful advice for non 'normal' births.

I did a face to face "positive birth" course and found it informative but it did put the fear into me about cascade of intervention/anything that wasn't a home birth. I was referred to be consultant led and the woman who ran the course was horrified and basically encouraged me to do all I could to be discharged to midwife care - I cried in the consultant apt because I was so freaked out about what would happen if I was consultant led. Madness now when I look back!! Then covid hit, all home births were cancelled in my area and I had no choice but to go to a Labour ward. I did the PBC course online in the lead up and ended up getting angrier and angrier as I was doing it - I felt there was a lot of blame about what I might have done "wrong" to lead to an unsatisfactory birth. I was then induced as I was 42 weeks. I was so terrified - when actually I had no reason to be. I found the breathing helpful to manage contractions - that's all I can say that's positive. I'm pregnant again now and I'm staying away from it all apart from the breathing app!!!

@Sceptre86 I'm sorry your birth story wasn't listened to! There's clearly a difference between sharing 'scare stories' of traumatic births with expectant mothers, and sharing your birth story which happens to be a c-section. There's nothing negative about a c-section if that was the right decision for you and you felt supported by your care providers. Just like with any birth.

For example, Milli Hill clearly recommends having several birth plans for different scenarios. I'm having a planned home birth but also have birth plans for hospital transfer and c-section. Hopefully that will help me to stay calm and feel equipped to cope in a variety of situations. No one should feel like they 'failed' their birth, but I don't think it's hypnobirthing as a concept that leads to that.

Snake oil. Even those that pretend to cover interventions- that’s somewhat at odds with all the affirmations and relaxations about your body knowing what to do.

I had 4 very straightforward homebirths. The last one was back to back and I managed with just breathing and my hypnobirthing techniques. It obviously doesn't work for everyone but it does for a lot of us so YABU for disregarding our experiences just because it wasn't yours. Hypnobirthing can be a great tool to use in labour, but obviously if you end up needing help or a c-section etc then that is OK too. It isn't a competition. If people are shaming you for your birth then obviously they are twats.

Labouring first time mothers nowadays are much older and more obese than any previous generation, with therefore a higher risk of complications and interventions.
The chance of needing induction and/or instrumental delivery is high.
I think antenatal courses should be honest about this, particularly if they are pushing the “your body knows what to do” nonsense.
Shrewsbury maternity unit has just had a damning inquiry into the excess stillbirths and neonatal deaths resulting from their midwives’ determination to push natural deliveries.

@Lunalicious

I had 4 very straightforward homebirths. The last one was back to back and I managed with just breathing and my hypnobirthing techniques. It obviously doesn't work for everyone but it does for a lot of us so YABU for disregarding our experiences just because it wasn't yours. Hypnobirthing can be a great tool to use in labour, but obviously if you end up needing help or a c-section etc then that is OK too. It isn't a competition. If people are shaming you for your birth then obviously they are twats.

Agree 100%

Problem is twats, not hypnobirthing

I think this is coming from a lack of understanding of what hypno birthing is.

I did a course over a weekend (calmbirth) which walks you through all the physical steps the body goes through during the labour, in way more detail than I learned from my midwife or anywhere else, that at different stages without intervention the body releases different chemicals and hormones etc to support the birth process.

Obviously there are births that have complications which are out of your control and it's marvellous that we have the medical skills to support that and therefor it's not suitable on every birth.

If you are really interested I'd try to attend a workshop or class.

After mine I had a mediation I did every night for the last 3/4 months of pregnancy, I had never meditated before, but it was great, I had a 30 minute guided meditation which relaxed and gave me confidence.

@linerforlife

I did a face to face "positive birth" course and found it informative but it did put the fear into me about cascade of intervention/anything that wasn't a home birth. I was referred to be consultant led and the woman who ran the course was horrified and basically encouraged me to do all I could to be discharged to midwife care - I cried in the consultant apt because I was so freaked out about what would happen if I was consultant led. Madness now when I look back!! Then covid hit, all home births were cancelled in my area and I had no choice but to go to a Labour ward. I did the PBC course online in the lead up and ended up getting angrier and angrier as I was doing it - I felt there was a lot of blame about what I might have done "wrong" to lead to an unsatisfactory birth. I was then induced as I was 42 weeks. I was so terrified - when actually I had no reason to be. I found the breathing helpful to manage contractions - that's all I can say that's positive. I'm pregnant again now and I'm staying away from it all apart from the breathing app!!!

I'm sorry you had that experience but you shouldn't discourage anyone else from exploring that route.

It sounds like your provider was a bit excessive. My experience was that the lady talked about empowering me, giving me the tools to ask the right questions to be comfortable with decisions. So when I was moved to consultant led and they talked about induction I felt able to ask why, what are the risks either way and to make that choice rather than blindly agree or be terrified because some risks were quoted. In the end I was induced but I was comfortable with why, my midwives and consultant read and understood my birth preferences and were really supportive of it. Even during and after emcs they did what I'd asked.

The course I did also covered alternatives in depth, one of the really strong messages was it's 'preferences' not a plan and don't worry if things change. I had preferences for vaginal, forceps, episiotomy, EMCS and everything else I could think of and had some really great tools from hypnobirthing to manage them.

I'd really recommended checking out 'one born without the drama'

There's so much judgement around how women give birth and its all so ridiculous. Everything from the length of labour to any pain relief you might have to any intervention you might need is scrutinised and commented on and the pressure to have a 'perfect birth' actually leads to some women developing PND. I wanted to try hypnobirthing/home birth with my 2nd after a pretty horrific first labour but I ended up developing severe pre-eclampsia and no amount of relaxation techniques was going to save me from the emcs that nobody could have predicted. Its not like you can look at children and tell what kind of labour their mother had with them.

I know what you mean. I think I read one of the original books and the writer described how ‘women in Africa’ just pause from their farming work, lean against a tree and give birth with no fuss. At the time I read it one in six birthing women in Niger were dying in childbirth.

However, some of the techniques did work for me. The idea of breathing not pushing I am sure made my second birth a lot smoother than the first. And concentrating on your breath when things get tough might help you even if you have a c-section. Got to say I have used it a lot when having smears/blood tests even covid vaccine to stay calm when I am nervous.

I don’t at all agree that those who are sceptical about it are only so because it “didn’t work for them”.

If it was all just relaxation and breathing techniques and knowing about the process of birth, then that’s absolutely fine - no problem with that at all. What tips it into snake oil IMO is the “hypnosis” claim. Hypnobirthing quite explicitly doesn’t say it’s just about relaxation techniques - the entire point of it is the claim that you can induce self-hypnosis. And a large amount of that rests on whether you (a) believe hypnosis exists and (b) whether you’re particularly suggestible or susceptible to it (and the whole idea).

Now, I can’t pronounce on whether hypnosis exists. But I’ve had several people (including a hypnotherapist) try to “hypnotise” me in other contexts, and it didn’t work on me in any respect. Either I’m not suggestible in that way, or whatever; but in the hypnobirthing course I did (leaving aside the course leader’s dodgy medical claims), the breathing and meditation exercises were great; but none of the supposed “hypnosis” or “self-hypnosis” did anything for me - CD, visualisations, no hypnosis going on.

Now maybe others are more amenable to it, or whatever. I don’t know - I gather that hypnosis does seem to work for some people. But just as like in stage hypnosis acts, the entertainers do sone routines first to find the people in the audience who are most amenable/suggestible, I suspect that it might just work for some people better than others. (If hypnosis exists, that is.)

However if all it is is breathing and relaxation exercises, well, there are situations in north where no amount of those are going to help. I had an induction that went wrong, continuous contractions and a hypertonic precipitate labour when they were trying to stop involuntary pushing - I couldn’t even catch my breath never mind do a visualisation!

And I was terrified out of my wits because I knew quite well what could go wrong and what was happening, and no amount of relaxation exercises was going to stop me knowing what was going on, especially when they pressed the big red button.

Whereas for women having a straightforward birth with normal contractions, breathing and visualisation may well help enormously. Also if everything around them is encouraging and calm. Whereas, it’s pretty hard to go into yourself, focus and breathe with the surges if there are midwives and doctors running around yelling for assistance with looks of terror on their faces

*in birth, not in north!

@MajesticallyAwkward I am pleased you enjoyed hypnobirthing and found it useful. I also only went ahead with the induction after considering choices etc, and I had also learnt about the mechanics of birth and had "preferences" - all the things you're taught on those courses. What I'm saying is MY experience of hypnobirthing via two different providers was that it generated a lot of fear about medical settings for birthing and medical interventions, which led me to be constantly feeling on high alert for someone doing something unnecessary / wrong by me the whole time instead of trusting my medical team. In my post I gave MY experience and what I would be doing next time. That is the point of the thread.

I don't think you're being a cow, I was a first time mum and really brought into the hypnobirthing malarkey. My birth ended up being forceps in theatre as they thought it would be c section ultimately.

The pros for me - concentrating on breathing and focusing better (DD was back to back and my contractions were very close together from the minute my waters went).

The cons - falsely believing if I did it all the hypnobirthing way I'd get the water birth I wanted etc I think this left me with more of a sense of grief and then I also really struggled breast feeding and felt like even more of a failure. This is all ridiculous and I wouldn't bat an eyelid if anyone else formula fed or had a c section but it felt like I'd done it all wrong in my head. I blame hormones.

@tigerbird absolutely, I'm completely un-suggestible and that's why I wasn't keen. I kind of lost it when, during the short session we had as part of NCT, the facilitator suggested I focus on a photo of my cat to help.

The thing that bothers me is that my second birth was great- at home, in a pool, no whale music but lots of shouting. Yes, it hurt. Of course. The thing that made a big difference? The midwives, who were both completely awesome. Positioning women as responsible for the outcome depending on whether they did an expensive course and focused properly is making an excuse for the real issue, which terrible NHS care for a lot of women.

We are not 'designed' to birth. From an evolutionary perspective we've got to the point where enough of us won't die that the species continues. That's all.