To feel pissed off with hypnobirthing

[thatsnotmyname33]

Just a rant really.

I have been reading up on hypnobirthing in preparation for my second baby due in the next few weeks. My first birth was quite stressful, lots of interventions and ended with an emergency section so this time I had hoped for a VBAC and was open to the idea of a calmer, more controlled birth like hypnobirthing promotes.

However the more I've read the more it has annoyed me. It doesn't take into account the possibility of complications. The whole narrative is that your body is designed for this and should be able to do it providing you breathe properly and have some nice whale music playing in the background.

I'm probably finding it harder because it's looking likely that another c section could be on the cards for me and I'm sick of reading birth stories about how proud and powerful women felt after birthing 'naturally'. I really wanted that feeling but I want my baby here safely more.

I don't know, I just find it all a bit simplistic and one dimensional, like the only births that really count are the ones that are natural. Am I just being a cow?

Rant coming: its a f-ing cult along with the whole positive birth movement. I get there has been a historic over medicalisation of birth, and these things are a counter to that. But they have ended up under educating women in the same way.

They place so much focus on natural birth, drug free birth, waiting for the baby to "choose their birthday" when they're 41 weeks and needing to think about induction.

My NCT leader was a shocker, no discussion on pain options if you needed an induction, one of my group went in thinking that she wouldn't need an epidural with Syntocin and could just breathe her way through it. She ended up so mentally messed up from the birth and the pain of those contractions that she won't have another baby.

No education from NCT on ways to make breastfeeding work if it doesn't happen well enough on its own. She only finally relented and said formula is fine after me pressing her to talk about things like nipple shields, pumps and what happens if you just can't.

I find the whole thing absolutely abhorrent, places like this should be educating women on both sides, risks, benefits, not telling women its fine and to just breathe their way through it.

Answer me this, would a doctor or nurse or anyone push a man to have a natural vasectomy? Or breathe their way through a knee reconstruction? No bloody way.

I totally agree. An old school friend has recently become a hypnobirthing therapist and all her page is about how she trusted her body, she knew she could do it etc which is why she refused induction or monitoring when she had menocomin in her waters. On the other hand my baby had PROM, two failed inductions and ended in EMCS and her posts make me feel rubbish like I failed.
She's due her 2nd any day now and although I hope it all goes smoothly I wonder what she'll do if it doesn't

Lots of different viewpoints which shows what a divisive topic it is.

I haven't just read dodgy articles online. I've read books and follow the PBC. I would have gone to classes but the only one close to me is extortionate and knowing what I now know about some of the premises behind it I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. Obviously some approaches and therapists are going to be better than others and if you've had a positive experience using it then that's great.

I do see the sense in some of the points especially staying calm, breathing exercises and mantras. Panicking never helps anyone in any high stress situation.

Perhaps I am projecting. That's because after my first section I felt like a failure and having now tried to prepare myself for a VBAC and facing the prospect of a section again, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I'm not saying women who have given birth vaginally shouldn't feel proud. But I also don't like the subtle narrative suggesting that caesarean is the easy way out. This could push women to make dangerous choices just so they can prove a point to themselves and others. I find it abhorrent that some hypnobirthing groups won't allow c section mums to talk about their experience or invite them back to classes. Admittedly the books I've read do cover c sections but only a very small token chapter.

Sure, there are those for whom hypnobirthing is about whale music and being 'natural'. Ignore them. Your stance is a perfectly reasonable one. Whatever gets you both through successfully. You grew this baby from scratch for nine months. That is the real effort, not the few hours of giving birth.

Giving birth is very intense though so training yourself in coping tools is worth a try at least. If it doesn't help in the end so be it.
Hypnobirthing did not appeal to me either but it did help me to read a lot about how birth works. With my first birth I was quite naive, I had interventions that were unnecessary largely because my midwife panicked as it was going too quickly (yeah...).
I live in a country where midwives don't have much power and births tend to be medicalised.

With the second birth I read so much I felt like my own midwife. I self-examined. I knew what stage I was in. Some people say you have to let go and let it happen. For me it was very reassuring to have my analytical mind switched on.
People are individuals, I don't think it's one size fits all.
Having multiple strategies to fall back on is always a good idea.

I did some hypnobirthing stuff online before having DD but found it hard to take it too seriously. Which is probably good because I had the whole cascade of intervention, starting from induction and ending with a EMCS. Had I taken the hypnobirthing stuff too seriously, I think I'd have either really struggled with having had a section, or declined the induction in the first place. If I had declined the induction I'm not sure DD would have made it - there were complications that no one was aware of beforehand and she needed to be out asap.

On the other hand, I'm aware that someone could say if I'd taken it more seriously then I'd have successfully given birth once induced. And I can't prove otherwise, though I have to say I was actually pretty calm all the way through (with a slight wobble when they told me they were recommending I had a section now.) I had amazing midwives who listened to me, which definitely helped much more than any kind of breathing techniques to be honest! (They also let DH in earlier than the Covid rules said they should have, which was very helpful to keeping me calm.)

Maybe try to approach it differently, as something that can help you manage anxiety.

Because of the horror of my first birth I had an elective c for next child and I also went to a hypnotherapist to prepare for hypno birthing.

In the event the anaesthetist messed up and I could feel the C-section BUT I flipped into hypno mode and managed fine. So I highly recommend it.

I used the From Bump to Baby chapter hypnobirthing course. The course covered all aspects of birth and there was a section on induction and c-section. I knew I would like be having an induction and the course went through how you can still be in control if you accept an induction. That accepting an induction is a choice you are making to keep yourself, your baby or both healthy.

I did use the breathing techniques a lot because I had no access to pain relief until 8cm. I can’t say it worked in that there was no pain but it did help me to feel calmer and give me something to focus on, rather than lying in bed in agony for hours.

I got a book and cd which was heavily recommended at the time. The first line was “there is absolutely no reason why giving birth should hurt”, which made me laugh so much I couldn’t take the rest of it seriously.

I went to a very balanced teacher who was a midwife, who ironically preferred caring for women with high risk care pathways.

It was very balanced but did nothing for me when push came to shove and my own birth descended into interventions. It actively made me feel anti induction and when I eventually accepted valid medical advice to progress with induction, I felt I had failed to advocate for myself to avoid it.

They also said there would never be a point at which the pain was continuous which was not true for me once I was hooked up to that induction drip.

Nice to relax in the later stages of labour but was actually unhelpful for me personally during birth.

Yanbu...oots a load of twaddle. I had a doula who promoted it..i ended up with a ecs!

Feh. The hypnobirthing I got was great for pain relief and calming myself down. Emergency C and I was still using it when things got stressful, mostly in the horrendous ward they put me in the next day. The bells! The awful man visiting baby Fox in the next bay who had to have the TV on super loud. Hypnobirthing routines are great for calming, I use them still in sports massages (ow!). But that's all they are.

Hypnobirthing can be used for people that have planned C-section so I honestly don’t see how it would be too much of a problem if you ended up in that scenario whilst using Hypnobirthing my instructor 18 years ago told us to just keep going with it whilst doing what the medics tell you to do

I'm doing the PBC course now but taking everything with a large pinch of salt.

I hate the whole 'your body was designed for this' narrative. In one of the videos she says your body was designed for this and what a perfect system etc etc. Then in another video she says oh btw more than half of women experience tearing. I mean, how perfect can a system be if the majority of participants end up tearing?

There is research in the States showing that induction at 39 weeks reduces the number of EMCS, and induced babies are no more likely to experience stillbirth, newborn death or other severe complications (compared to uninduced babies). Another study looking at induction vs just seeing what happens after 42 weeks done somewhere in Scandinavia was called off after 6 babies in the 'wait and see' group died. And PBC are out here saying 'your body knows what it's doing, just let it be'. I think it's dangerous.

Anyway I'm keeping practising the breathing because I want to stay as calm as possible when it all goes down, but I'm also open to what the midwives suggest as my labour develops and if I need to change plan then I will.

I should also add, that despite my 'perfect' first time experience (precipitous labour, homebirth, BBA, drug free etc) this time I am choosing a hospital birth, induction before 40 weeks and then invariably more interventions off the back of that. You don't have to sink into every aspect of hypnobirthing - just take the bits that are helpful and leave the rest to the people who want it.

I did classes, and I have to say mine was really good, but possibly because the lady running it had three kids, one absolutely horrendous experience that ended in emergency csection, one planned csection then a vbac.

It was more about remaining calm, knowing your rights and having a good idea about the potential outcomes. There was lots of evidence based information (eg. waters going and subsequent infection) and a lot of teaching my partner to advocate for me.

It's so unregulated though, you could end up with a lovely, well informed lady like mine or Cray antivax Susan who could do some real damage.

@NeedAHoliday2021

My tour of the hospital maternity unit (3 years after DD’s traumatic birth with no pain relief due to awful care rather than choice) was with a lot of hypnobirth first time mums. When the midwife said we were going to see theatre for “our csection mum” and pointed at me, there was an audible gasp of horror. Dh is usually oblivious but even he commented in my ear as we waddled up the hallway that they were a judgey bunch. All was seemingly forgiven when the midwife called me her “twin mum”. I didn’t reveal that actually the csection was agreed as an option pre conception due to the poor care I’d received meaning I wasn’t listened to and had no say in my care. I hope they all got the birth they wanted but experience tells me there’s a high chance some didn’t. My csection with the twins was a breeze and I recovered much faster than the naturally birth that left me with 37 stitches.

I’m not anti hypnobirthing but I am anti the belief that one way of giving birth is superior to another.

My first child was born by cesarean. We had joined the NCT before the birth. The group leader phoned me a couple of weeks after I had had my baby. When I said I had had a cesarean her comment was "Oh well, never mind, you can do it properly next time". He is 29 now. I have never forgotten it. Thoughtless cunt.

@Meatshake Mine told us that if your waters broke you could completely negate the risk of infection by taking a generic antibiotic Oh, and that if you might need an ambulance to transfer to hospital during a homebirth then the midwives will ask one to wait quietly round the corner 'just in case'

@Sportsnight

I got a book and cd which was heavily recommended at the time. The first line was “there is absolutely no reason why giving birth should hurt”, which made me laugh so much I couldn’t take the rest of it seriously.

Midwife at my ante natal classes said that you would have some "sensations" during the birth. Right o.

I've not done hypnobirthing myself. I have a friend who is a hypnotherapist and she had an emergency c-section and two v-bacs herself. She says hypnobirthing helped with all three and says it can help with feeling calm during unstraightforward births too.

Hi OP,
I haven’t rtft.
My second child was a vbac, I would advise you to look at the statistics around inductions for vbac and the caesarean rates. I was very surprised at how high the number of caesareans were in induced vbacs (in 2012). I had decided that if I went to full term I would book in for a planned caesarean rather than an induction. As it was, I went into labour and had my child at home (unplanned) because it was so quick. Luckily there were no complications and I credit hypnobirthing techniques for me not panicking.
With my first pregnancy I had an office job and spent a lot of time sat at a desk, with my second pregnancy, I was constantly mobile. I think this helped a lot.
Good luck x

I'd second Juju Sundin's book Birth Skills - there are loads of breathing/distraction techniques in there but no emphasis on "natural" and there's a lovely chapter with positive stories of births with medical interventions. I'm so glad I found it (thank you Mumsnet!) as I ended up with an EMCS due to pre-eclampsia, and that chapter definitely helped me stay calm and feel positive about the experience afterwards.

I did an NHS hypobirthing course taught by midwives who'd had extra training. I thought that would avoid the more woo aspects of it but it seemed to be more about getting their numbers up for the MLU! The course included a tour of the MLU, and constant mentions of the facilities (the refreshment break took place there). Mine was a high risk pregnancy with a planned induction on the labour ward and I was made to feel rather different to the 'lucky ones' who could birth in the MLU as the midwives put it. There wasn't any mention of using hypnobirthing in any context other than the MLU.

In the end I worked my way thru hypnobirthing, active birth positions, paracetamol, hot bath, gas and air, pethidine and an epidural. It was quite nice listening to the hypnobirthing music once the epidural was working. But it didn't really help before that. Having a good idea of what was happening and knowing to ask for pain relief early worked a lot better.

The hypnobirthing music was also the only thing that would send DD off to sleep in the early weeks!

I had a bad 1st labour. 5 days induction and then a stay in nicu. My boy didn’t get the all clear for 2 years
I was really anxious about labour with my second. Was referred to prenatal psych services.
My mw recommended I look into hypnobirthing. I honestly think she wanted Iull me into thinking I had some control building up to labour. We all knew i was having an epidural as soon as I walked into the room and then as much intervention as I needed (she was forceps in the end and I’m not sure I had a calm breath for the whole 24 hours).

That said, you’re about to have your second child after a difficult first labour, you can be angry at anything you want. I prescribe biscuits.

I think you're wrong. The hypnobirthing course I did was all about staying calm and making informed choices whatever happened, with a bit on how it could help with c section and interventions etc.

I used hypnobirthing for vbac and it helped me through the first long chunk of contractions. It went out the window with transition but definitely helped me stay calm and feel empowered for the first bit.

I think mindfulness, breathing, meditation etc could also have a strong role to play in managing the postnatal experience and being on postnatal wards. For my first birth, a week on the postnatal ward was much worse than the birth itself.

Good luck with your birth, whatever happens.

Another recent hypnobirthing thread:

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amibeing_unreasonable/4496660-To-ask-if-anyone-had-a-bad-birth-experience-despite-using-hypnobirthing-techniques

I'm afraid I was quite open on that thread about how I think it's largely bollocks, and my opinion hasn't changed in the last month or so.