To what extent would you say the UK is a racist country?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Bear with me on this. This thread is a culmination of some of the other threads I've been on and don't wish to derail. But thinking about for example ChildQ and the extent to which what happened to her was racially motivated, considering say the treatment of MM in the press which had a private school girl ostensibly painted as being 'straigh outta the hood'. I know that the UK is highlighted as one of the most racially tolerant places in the world, if not Europe. But just on the face of it I wonder, do you think the UK has a 'race problem'?

Of course white people can suffer racism, however it does not disadvantage them in ANY area of their life. They do not lose out on career opportunities, business opportunities, other opportunities. They are not presumed guilty before being proved innocent. They do not need to choose carefully where to live or even travel to due to the racism they are likely to endure.

Um you have just described the life of a traveller.

Less than other countries maybe but my friends and partner who are black experience racism on a daily basis. As a blonde, white woman the world is far kinder and more accepting of me than DH as a black man. The shit that happens to him would honestly never in a million years happen to me.

For those of you who want to understand more about the daily bullshit, Ateh Jewel on instagram is great at calling out the fuckery she has to deal with.

It’s a very mixed picture. Lots of tolerance, fairness, inclusivity and openness and then strong undercurrents and pockets of bigotry.

Not usually the same people/institutions, though. I think it’s impossible to credit the good as well as address the bad.

@Georgeskitchen

Try being English in Scotland

Yes that sounds so awful. Poor you experiencing that kind of 'racism'.

@Georgeskitchen

Try being English in Scotland

🙄

@Easymeasy

So the only valid racism is white on black is it ??

I do think that UK is a fairly tolerant country but the racism is there. There is more racism towards Black people and Muslims though.

POC here ☝🏽 and yes it is but to be honest I'm too tired to argue about it with people who refuse to accept or see the overwhelming evidence. It cam sometimes feel like death by a thousand cuts that no-one admits is happening. A bit like every day misogyny with an extra dollop of fuckery, So I just get on with my life the best I can.

@Grilledaubergines

Why can a white person not suffer racism?

Because of power structures.

Because of power structures.

TBF, I think PP’s example of travellers is worth including.

UK is one of the more tolerant places I’ve been to (except perhaps canada and Omani’s are just lovely) but still a bit racist (I’m BAME, i think I found Madrid to be the worst place I’ve been, don’t know about any other spanish cities, Madrid put me off from visiting Spain again)

I think though that Afro/ carribean origin people experience probably the most overt and automatic racism though.

[quote hattie43]@Easymeasy

So the only valid racism is white on black is it ??[/quote]
On black, on asian, on travellers, on Jewish people perpetuated by white people yes if we are talking about racism and not prejudice, xenophobia etc.

Wholly racist maybe not but racism does exist. Exists in the public sector therefore institutionalised. I went to Bristol once and was racialyl abused in the street, I was just walking to tescos to get some food minding my own business. Get the same treatment in villages and rural areas mostly. I'm indian btw. Oh and when 9/11 happened the ignornace was staggering, because all brown people are muslims

Racism isn't a UK problem or a Western problem.

It's a universal human problem which has existed in every society throughout history.

Which should make us look at the psychology of it. What fuels it, what sustains it what eradicates it.
Because it's undoubtedly a vile destructive force we've not done away with just through legislation.

We have come a long way though. Legislatively, more so than other societies and culturally the norms and what is acceptable are now different.

But you don't undo centuries of history, and some of the basics of human cognition quickly or easily.

Or ever, probably.

Often one out group just gets replaced by another.

You see the natural trigger for hostility by group identity arising in another form.

I think some of the anti racist rhetoric is now racist for instance.

@Thoosa

Because of power structures.

TBF, I think PP’s example of travellers is worth including.

Yup travellers and romany are a legally recognised ethnic group so are protected against race discrimination. It's always called whataboutery on these types of threads though because it is socially acceptable to be racist against travellers, lots of people pile in with stories of how they deserve it.

@Georgeskitchen

Try being English in Scotland

Yes I’m sure that’s entirely comparable (not) My DH is not English and he and my children have had some “hilarious” comments before but in no way is it similar to being treated with (at best) suspicion due to the colour of your skin and it would be complete shite to suggest he/we understand anything about what it’s like to be non white in this country.

Vladmirs
Yes! Caucasians have thebpower and can
and do actively use this to disadvantage non caucasians in every sphere of life from education to jobs.

Blacks, Asians do not have such power so their racism has very little impact on caucasians.

@Grilledaubergines

Why can a white person not suffer racism?

They can, UK law says so. But some people feel that only non-white people can be subjected to racism. www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/protected-characteristics/race-discrimination/

Lots of racism still sadly - I have witnessed plenty, some of it pretty shocking.

@Itsnotover

This is something that white people by definition cannot have a legitimate opinion on.

You should find out from POC and amplify their voices.

I've commented because, as a white person, I hear comments from people who outwardly project themselves as tolerant, which they possibly wouldn't say to/in front of a person of colour. Normally prefixed by 'I probably shouldn't say this but ...'

And yes, I do call people out on this behaviour.

On black, on asian, on travellers, on Jewish people perpetuated by white people yes if we are talking about racism and not prejudice, xenophobia etc.

So what is it called if a black person or Asian person is racist against travellers? This isn't me trying to derail, I'm genuinely curious as I wouldn't have thought it was impossible for someone Asian to be racist against travellers or Jews for instance.

UK is full of people who "aren't racist but..." At least in the area I live in. I've noticed people are more overtly racist in recent years. Emboldened by our PM I expect.

We've reverted to jingoism and xenophobia (driven by media) even more recently, so I doubt we'll see racial harmony any time soon.

U.K. is more tolerant than average, but still very racist.
I think however U.K. is more xenophobic than average as there’s severe prejudice against any/all immigrants no matter what race they are. The English also seem enjoy disliking Irish, Welsh and Scottish.

@Easymeasy - that’s a bit harsh, the poster isn’t obliged to live in a way sanctioned by others (anyone black or white) and is allowed to form their own views on things. I’ve been called a coconut for being an atheist, I don’t believe I owe anyone faith or political affiliation etc by virtue of my race. I have my own mind and if I disagree with you I’ve probably thought about it.

I don’t understand anyone being called a bounty or a coconut, it’s divisive, unpleasant and trying to shame people into conformity.

I think in the UK it is much less socially acceptable to be publicly racist. It very much still a case of strong hidden racism.