To what extent would you say the UK is a racist country?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Bear with me on this. This thread is a culmination of some of the other threads I've been on and don't wish to derail. But thinking about for example ChildQ and the extent to which what happened to her was racially motivated, considering say the treatment of MM in the press which had a private school girl ostensibly painted as being 'straigh outta the hood'. I know that the UK is highlighted as one of the most racially tolerant places in the world, if not Europe. But just on the face of it I wonder, do you think the UK has a 'race problem'?

What about other forms of xenophobia too? I think it goes in hand with racism.

It is considered acceptable to say derogatory things about white Eastern Europeans and Irish travellers, for example, when it shouldn't be. I've often felt very uncomfortable listening to people who I would never expect to use racial slurs saying awful things about travellers and Poles, and I've not always felt able to call it out.

Or what about people like me, who have mixed white Irish and South American (of European descent) heritage, and were brought up to think of themselves as totally white, but I only realised I'm not seen as that in this country, as an adult? Where do we fit in?

There were no boxes for me to tick when I first came across ethnic monitoring forms in the 1990s that accurately described my heritage, so I had to tick the one that covered 50% of my heritage- white Irish, whilst always feeling uncomfortable about it.

So I don't think it's as simple to say only POC can have a valid opinion on racism.

I think anyone who has been made by wider society to feel as if they are 'other' has the right to an opinion.

Like pretty much everywhere else in the developed world, yes, UK has a racism problem. A different and less acute one than in the past, but I think we still have negative cultural 'narratives' about people of colour, women, gay people that affect everything. For people of colour I think there is this underlying stereotype [TW: negative stereotypes ahead] that they are 'big and strong and aggressive and less intelligent and more criminal' that is projected onto them. This causes, for example, post-birth complications of women of colour to be brushed off; people to be suspicious of people of colour going about their business, people accusing them of being 'angry' for expressing opinions in a calm way etc...

@neverbeenskiing

I was going to give my take OP. But as a white woman, apparently it’s not worthy of anything and I have no right.

The fact that you're so irritated by the idea that your voice, as a white person, shouldn't be the loudest in a conversation about race speaks volumes.

But they haven't suggested their voice should be the loudest in a conversation about race or even that it should be comparable to a poc's opinion. They are responding to posters suggesting that white people aren't allowed any opinion on racism in the UK.

Pyramid of White supremacy

If 'white' people cant discuss racism, how are we going to address the issue that we are racist? We all need to be part of the conversation to inprove humanity rather than working against each other.

@Bumpitybumper white people can’t know to what extent racism is a problem. It’s racist to expect people of colour to educate white people on what racism is but it’s also racist for white people to talk over people of colour about how much racism is a problem.

@Itsnotover

Pyramid of White supremacy

Thank you for this. It’s eye-opening.

Growing up in London having black and Asian friends and growing up partying to the same music, eating each other's food of heritage etc, I thought racism was going away to a large extent. I think many city-dwelling people are actively anti-racist (can't speak for people that live in towns or the countryside). I don't have other white people making racist comments to me about black or Asian people, and find people are warm and friendly to people of all races and backgrounds. If anything I feel that people of many races think it's acceptable to say anti-Semitic things publicly, which I challenge if I hear.

However I think maybe I was a bit naive. We have much institutional racism; e.g. school exclusions and police. I think our current government behaved, and continues to behave, absolutely appallingly over the Windrush scandal, and this actually made me feel embarrassed to be British. What happened to Schoolgirl Q was shocking and criminal, and I think her school was complicit. I personally feel the police seems to be run for white males. Blank people don't trust them, (and neither do women in general anymore). Police culture seems out of step with how we behave in 2022.
Also social media has given a voice to racists. I don't know how much racism there is on there, but I know Diane Abbott gets more abuse than any other MP, and that however amazing Marcus Rashford has been for the poor people in the UK, he still gets racist abuse on social media, although the abuse caused an outpouring of support.

I find the idea of a country being racist as strange. Yes there is racism here, some people are horribly racist. I think there's more overt racism in many other countries. I've travelled a lot and been appalled by some of the racism I've witnessed abroad. However there's certainly room for improvement here too.

I think that as a country we have lots of processes in place to stamp out racism and other discrimination, which is great, but there are a large minority of overtly racist people who don’t hide it, those that do hide it and those that don’t think of themselves as racist but make assumptions, not from any hate but because of stereotypes.

However, as someone who it white that is just how I see it, I am sure people from other races would have different views and experiences. So yes, I don’t live in what I feel is a racist society because I don’t experience it but I will never be able to see it from someone else’s point of view that experience both overt and covert racism and stereotyping.

My dh is a police officer. He experiences abuse because of his job a lot. He is white. I have a very good friend who is also a police officer, he experiences abuse a massive amount more, he is black. So although the abuse might not necessarily be racist in what is being said I have no doubt that the reason for the abuse is more often than not based on the colour of his skin not because of the job he does.

@Purplepinkred

I am mixed race. Someone called me coloured last week.

My white DH was disgusted . I said to DH - it’s ok they weren’t being rude they have just used this term as at one point this was acceptable .
I feel as a white person DH and his family are so scared to coming across as racist they have become someone who sees everything as racist .

I get extremely annoyed when out walking people of all races approach me to sign up to BLM bedside I am ‘black’ .
I find it utterly patronising and offensive that I am singled out by my race ! It’s totally ironic !

Racism isn’t acceptable in any form. Neither is sexism or prejudice against anyones choice of sexuality but I feel the world has gone abit mental / pretentious and over sensitive !!!!

When I was at Uni a lot of ‘black people’ couldn’t understand why I choose to have white friends . I was called a bounty! There is a lot of racism from black to white as well.

I’m sorry but as a mixed race person I feel that way .

Similar experience, mixed race but lived in Africa for half my childhood. Experienced overt racism from African side of the family who openly called me 'the little white one' and have experienced plenty of polite discrimination here in the UK. For example I saw many people promoted over my head who looked more like the snr management than I did. I would say the UK is better than many European countries I've travelled and worked in though. Most people I think are trying, but I do believe brexit brought out a lot of unpleasantness out from under some rocks.

@Itsnotover

This is something that white people by definition cannot have a legitimate opinion on.

You should find out from POC and amplify their voices.

Is it? Try telling that to my friend whose black girlfriend’s family pressured her into dumping him because he was white. It’s pretty myopic to think it’s one way traffic.

The child who was a racist bully to my son had been racist in school on 4 separate occasions in this year alone that I know of. These aren't just single incidents each time, he's a vile bully.

Yet he's still there, despite multiple 'last chances'

He should be removed from the school, the system doesn't protect his victims in any way.

So many systems in this country protect racists, and so many people excuse them because 'it wouldn't bother them'

The UK is a racist country.

Is there racism in the UK? Absolutely.

Is it any worse than any other country? Doubtful.

Can anyone name a country that isn't racist?

@Itsnotover

This is something that white people by definition cannot have a legitimate opinion on.

You should find out from POC and amplify their voices.

Nothing is going to change with that approach. The majority of MPs are white. If they can't have an opinion on racism or even be forced to address racism then how will things get better? It shouldn't be left to people like Diane Abbott to speak up for every black person across the U.K. Other MPs should be in parliament representing the ethnic minorities in their constituency and showing that they give a shit about the people they represent.

What countries are less racist than the UK? I can't really think of any. MAYBE Canada. But only maybe.

[quote Itsnotover]@Bumpitybumper white people can’t know to what extent racism is a problem. It’s racist to expect people of colour to educate white people on what racism is but it’s also racist for white people to talk over people of colour about how much racism is a problem.[/quote]
I just find this so odd as it isn't how we approach any other issue we have in our society. Surely we need to hear and understand everyone to begin to make real progress. Of course white people shouldn't talk over POC voices but equally we can't just gag all white people and remove them from all discussion.

Article in Daily Mail from a black guy, he gets grief because he is expected to be Left Wing and he isn't.
I'm white English, no black or Asian people in our school, or where we lived or where my Dad worked. Several European Displaced Persons. One we knew was German POW, couldn't go back.

Several traveller and canal families having their first settled home. Many adults could not read or write.
Diverse but it's different.
Class is still the biggest problem. Look at the Insults to Boris many because he is rich and went to Oxford.

Hard for me to say because I’m white so I probably only see the obvious stuff and miss a lot of micro aggressions
However, i think that it’s probably pretty bad

Itsnotover

Polyanthus2
Surely you can be a traveller, a Jew, or are they not allowed to be white?

Just stop with the whattaboutery.

Jews and people within the travelling community do suffer from racism, that isn't whattaboutery.

Try being English in Scotland

Grilledaubergines
Of course white people can suffer racism, however it does not disadvantage them in ANY area of their life. They do not lose out on career opportunities, business opportunities, other opportunities. They are not presumed guilty before being proved innocent. They do not need to choose carefully where to live or even travel to due to the racism they are likely to endure.

I really could go on..............

Of course white people can suffer racism, however it does not disadvantage them in ANY area of their life. They do not lose out on career opportunities, business opportunities, other opportunities. They are not presumed guilty before being proved innocent. They do not need to choose carefully where to live or even travel to due to the racism they are likely to endure.

Unless they are Jewish or from the travelling community, I’m interested that these people apparently don’t ‘count’ because they are white.

I think the UK is very tolerant compared to a lot of other countries . I'm fed up of this self flagellation about race , rather we should accept being more progressive than others but still have a way to go . I'm not actually sure how you stop it though because you can't force people to like others when it's so deep seated . People like familiarity and have done since time began .