To what extent would you say the UK is a racist country?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Bear with me on this. This thread is a culmination of some of the other threads I've been on and don't wish to derail. But thinking about for example ChildQ and the extent to which what happened to her was racially motivated, considering say the treatment of MM in the press which had a private school girl ostensibly painted as being 'straigh outta the hood'. I know that the UK is highlighted as one of the most racially tolerant places in the world, if not Europe. But just on the face of it I wonder, do you think the UK has a 'race problem'?

I didn’t want to comment on this as I’m white but married into another culture and they experience racism a lot so I’m not at liberty to speak on their behalf and it’s truly shocking what they go through

BUT the reason I commented is a few years ago I was set upon by 4 black girls in an unprovoked attack! I used to live in a mixed area which backed onto a predominantly black area and I was walking to my car one evening when these young girls who I never met before jumped me and used my skin colour as insults during the attack! Now another poster said it’s only whites that are racist so what happened to me? The police were called, they managed to track the girls down and I pressed chargers! I was in a bad way and needed hospital treatment and up until that point I had never laid my eyes on these girls before! I still remember them to this day and what they put me through, any opinions on what the situation is actually called that I had to go through would be appreciated if it’s wasn’t racially aggravated??

@OppsUpsSide

Can you really not think of a single occurrence of racism against a person or group of people whose skin colour is white? I think that is called wilful ignorance.

I can think of prejudices, discrimination and an array of other labels that are just as unacceptable, terrible, shameful and disgraceful as racism- but that are not racism. I don't think anyone is saying no one white is oppressed and that racism is always worse or whatever, but it still doesn't mean its racism, nor is it a competition.

WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo

Your comment makes no sense in response. Anyway, I don’t make a habit out of discussing racism with a racist.

I think it’s on par with most Western European countries, I definitely don’t think it’s less racist. I think a difference is that in those countries the racism is more overt and obvious and people are aware of when and where it happens. There’s something a bit sneaky about British racism, for want of a better word. Some of it is very subtle. But also a lot on obliviousness to it happening is an issue. People telling themselves that this country is racially more tolerant than others is part of the problem - denial. You can’t fix a problem that you minimise or pretend does not exist.

I think there's pockets of racism and always will be in almost all cultures and countries. It's human nature, obviously needing to be fought. I don't believe that being culturally unaware or discussing issues relate to cultural differences in societies with majority and minority make ups of population is racism, but I think many do even if by mistake. I think CRT and more so its predecessor CLS were a useful tool with which to examine and understand racial issues in the US, but they've now evolved into a divisive, hateful monster which has been transported here to the UK and I think a LOT of people, of multiple races, enjoy the power, feting and/or self flagellation that espousing CRT and being able to shut others down immediately by calling them a racist brings.

So no, I don't think the UK is a terribly racist country but I think a lot of people like pretending and ultimately convincing themselves that it is and I think CRT and it's tenets should be resisted at all costs. My child was very upset when it was brought up at school because she just couldn't get her head around how she was racist. I told her she needed to know that if things don't make sense no matter how much she thinks about them and tries to understand them then it's probably a load of nonsense and she should reject it and not just believe some people who've decided to believe a certain thing just because they tell her to. "CRT" and "Whiteness is a belief system and we don't have to believe in them in the same way as we don't need to believe in God or other personal beliefs.

I can think of prejudices, discrimination and an array of other labels that are just as unacceptable, terrible, shameful and disgraceful as racism- but that are not racism. I don't think anyone is saying no one white is oppressed and that racism is always worse or whatever, but it still doesn't mean its racism, nor is it a competition.

Precisely.

hattie, evidence of what I'm saying. Not saying you're one of the people who thinks like that, by the way!

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Happens to travellers on a daily basis within this country - but it’s not racism if they’re white. Righto.

I don't think anyone is denying that travellers face unacceptable prejudice which is a big issue and completely unacceptable are they?

So no, I don't think the UK is a terribly racist country but I think a lot of people like pretending and ultimately convincing themselves that it is

This is an extremely problematic statement given to make given the many people who experience the effects of structural racism every single day. Are you honestly saying that those people are convincing themselves of racism and therefore their experiences are imaginary?

Do black people experience racism in asian countries? can a white person experience racism in africa? Is racism always racism ? I really dont think universally racism is just about white vs black and brown. I imagine that that if a non white culture had colonised and conqueres a large part of the world we would have exactly the same issues . As a PP stated its about in groups/out groups and group identity. We have laws in this country to protect people from racial abuse and discrimination. Structural inequalities exist but these dont just discriminate against skin colour but also against class and sex.

I do believe a lack of education or cultural awareness is a melting pot for racism, so the more a population is pressed, demoralised and denied a decent living, the more narrow minded and suspicious they become, imo

Lack of education is sadly synonymous with many working class, whether we want to admit that or not. It isn't politically correct to say that out loud, of course

Nah, it's been absolutely solidly middleclass that have said repulsive things. Having sat through training sessions (I mean, what the fuck - you have to do a half day course in order to be told 'Don't be racist'?) and all they've taken from it has been 'don't get caught out'.

And fuck all has been done about it 'because we're sure they didn't mean it in that way/you must have misunderstood/they haven't grown up in the same circumstances you have/this doesn't affect you so no harm has been done'. Because it's not politically correct to say that the white middleclasses are just as racist, but are better at ensuring they aren't caught.

SpringSummer, I see where you're coming from, but I would also say overt racism is the first hurdle to tackle, and the UK is much better in this regard than a lot of other European countries. I think you can only really begin to get to grips with covert, subtle, intrinsic, institutional racism, after overt racism becomes socially unacceptable, but that's my opinion and I know others won't agree.

@Lovinglife45

Grilledaubergines Of course white people can suffer racism, however it does not disadvantage them in ANY area of their life. They do not lose out on career opportunities, business opportunities, other opportunities. They are not presumed guilty before being proved innocent. They do not need to choose carefully where to live or even travel to due to the racism they are likely to endure.

I really could go on..............

Thank you. I see your point in all of those except where to live which I think is an issue.

@sst1234

I think UK has a bigger problem with a middle class ‘white saviour syndrome’ than it does with racism. Try being a non- white person and telling a progressive white person that everything isn’t down to race. Watch the indignation. You may even be accused or being racist yourself, against your own race.

This.

Racism is implied or covert.
I'm white British and I see it often.
How POC are treated differently.
Seen it at work, when a white colleague made a joke about a Chinese name to a Chinese person.
No one comes out straight shooting saying, I don't like you because you are black...it's more, withdrawing services, making assumptions, applying rules and regulations differently between different people.

Yes
Institutionally so

As a country we have a racist Prime Minister, proven by his own words.

We also, as a majority, voted for Brexit which was sold as 'taking back control' , in other words lets stop jonny foreigner interfering in our country.

Our football fans boo tge national team players taking the knee.

Yeah, I'd say we have a bit of an issue to be honest.

I can't comment on racism because I'm white, but OMG the xenophobia in this country is dreadful. The EU referendum made it OK to speak openly about not liking 'them' coming over here - I got it even from friends and in one case family. Followed hastily by 'oh, but I don't mean you!'.

So I wouldn't be surprised at all if the experience of POC is that the UK is (still) very racist - even if it's better than other countries.

I’ve travelled much of the World with my Black (his choice of self description before anyone starts) DH.

Most countries that we have been to have far more casual racism than the UK and it is much more overt. Eastern Europe is definitely the worst (although we did find Estonia really nice) and we actually cut short a trip to Kiev (as was) because we felt very uncomfortable.

I can’t honestly think of any country, that wasn’t a majority Black population, that was less openly racist than the UK.

We lived in London then but spent a lot of time in other parts of the UK….there are definitely some racism hotspots here but people are generally more aware and less likely to make it obvious than they do elsewhere.

I love when racism comes up on here. There’s always bleating about how you can’t be sexist against men or boo hoo the poor menz will get over it or all men need to speak up against the bad ones or crying everyday sexism over the dumbest shit or why do conversations about women have to center on men and their feelings. But racism comes up and there’s an influx of you can be racist against white people too and I’m not responsible for the actions of racist white people or you can’t say anything anymore in this woke pc cancel culture and blah blah blah. The excuses men use to dismiss sexism against women are the exact same ones white people use to dismiss racism and it’s just so predictable.

@LaurieFairyCake

Very tolerant compared to majority of other countries

Still racist as fuck

Well, that pithy response saved me typing a much longer post. Thank you.

I can only think others are liviing areas without big traveller communities if they believe its not impacting on business opportunities or presumption of guilt. We literally get messages on facebook community pages to shut the pubs because there is a traveller funeral or people asking if a business is legit or traveller.

I am white and therefore have limited ability to make a judgement on this but FWIW:

In all societies where there is an ethnic majority and ethnic minorities there is some racism. The nature and character of that varies from society to society.

I think overt racism is relatively minor in the UK: it is socially unacceptable in most parts of society. I have certainly been shocked at the casual acceptance of overt racism in many European countries. But: there is a huge problem with institutional racism and we are still pretty socially divided on racial lines in many parts of society.

I think a lot of white people in this country congratulate themselves for not being overtly racist and sit back thinking the job is done. When in reality the kind of racism which does the most damage, the institutional and social racism, has barely been touched.

@sst1234

I think UK has a bigger problem with a middle class ‘white saviour syndrome’ than it does with racism. Try being a non- white person and telling a progressive white person that everything isn’t down to race. Watch the indignation. You may even be accused or being racist yourself, against your own race.

The trouble with that is that you haven't necessarily heard what has been said outside your hearing.