To what extent would you say the UK is a racist country?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Bear with me on this. This thread is a culmination of some of the other threads I've been on and don't wish to derail. But thinking about for example ChildQ and the extent to which what happened to her was racially motivated, considering say the treatment of MM in the press which had a private school girl ostensibly painted as being 'straigh outta the hood'. I know that the UK is highlighted as one of the most racially tolerant places in the world, if not Europe. But just on the face of it I wonder, do you think the UK has a 'race problem'?

@HRTQueen

As soon as Harry was known to be dating Megan the comments of is she right for him started

And out of Compton referring to a film about black rappers why not mention other areas close to where she lived plenty of known places in LA. Is she a rapper too ? What connection is there?

One article in mainstream media is one article too many and they also allowed their comments to stand

it’s pitiful it really is such excuses are made

The comments of "is she right for him?" was more likely because she was American, an actress and wasn't from an upper-middle class or blue blooded background. They also seemed to move quite quickly.

"Straight Outta Compton" is a well known saying that has appeared on t shirts for years. A bit like "London Calling". Why wouldn't they use this?

One article is one article too many but there are articles that target every conceivable demographic in a negative way. Ageism, sexism, classism, racism. They're all in the press.

@L0stinCyberspace

I think it's true to say any racism experienced by a white person in a predominantly white country is going to be pretty much inconsequential and this could be focused on if we weren't arguing over semantics all the time.

Anti-Irish racism has not been "pretty much inconsequential". Tell that to the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four. And to people from the current day who are mocked in the workplace for being Irish, to people who are forbidden to use a short Irish appropriate phrase a gravestone in an English cemetery, and to the microaggressions that Irish people often face from a small minority of white English people.

My white sister was beaten up and called a dirty Jew walking down the street carrying a bag from a kosher butcher. I'd say that wasn't inconsequential. She had a broken cheekbone.

(The butcher's bags are now unbranded).

All white people are racist to some degree. Some of us don’t want to be but it takes work and a willingness to listen.

I do think that’s the kind of performative, self-flagellating, white liberal bilge that OP was referring to. At least it’s the kind of nonsense that sends me round the bend. If I thought any of my white friends and acquaintance thought like that, I’d be firmly distancing myself from them, just as much as I would if I thought they were “all racist”. Which would be awkward as it includes family.

IRL you find plenty of completely non-bigoted people of all backgrounds. As well as too many of the other kind.

@snoozer11 what about the birth announcement with the monkey that was in the newspaper? Do you have an excuse for that too?

The comments we more often racist. Why you are even denying this are you claiming there has never been racism towards her ? Or suddenly people became racist when they decided they didn’t like her

Plenty of famous people were raised in LA it’s a huge city. We all know what Compton is famous for. My family live in LA no one claims to be straight out of Compton (unless they are). A slogan on a T-shirt that is the excuse

We are well aware there are many articles in the press that are sexist etc but we are discussing racism in this country and it was absolutely disgraceful what the press got away with and worse encouraged

And it’s disgraceful that people continue to make pathetic excuses

The full headline

“Harry's girl is (almost) straight outta Compton: Gang-scarred home of her mother revealed - so will he be dropping by for tea?”*

Straight outta Compton is the name of a rap album released by NWA.
Doria lives 14 miles away from Compton in a middle class neighbourhood. Beverly Hills is only 5 miles away, but they didn't use that did they?

Oh maybe not enough people have heard of Beverly Hills that must be the reason…

As every country is. Some whites hate blacks, some blacks hate whites, some Muslims hate Jews , Some Muslims hate non Muslims, Some blacks hate Jews blah blah blah. To me colour and religion is intertwined. Humans mainly only stay with their own kind and culture. It's ingrained. It won't change.

@HRTQueen

Oh maybe not enough people have heard of Beverly Hills that must be the reason…

Took me a while to figure it out 🙈

@sst1234 I didn't forget anything, I said what I said. I gave an explanation as to why there is a disparity between the treatment of her and Diane Abbott. Kemi works for Johnson. She regularly denies racism in the same way Jonson does, hence "doing his bidding". Literally nothing to do with her "acting white", everything to do with her being a shit Equalities minister.

[quote Easymeasy]@snoozer11 what about the birth announcement with the monkey that was in the newspaper? Do you have an excuse for that too?[/quote]
I think - as a point of accuracy- that was a tweet from a revolting radio host, who was quite rightly sacked for it (and still wouldn’t stop whinging away about it).

The tabloids weren’t the only guilty ones in that saga. SM was appalling.

@IdontWanna

If that is how you read it. I suspect you didn't engage my post with any kind of intellectual curiosity. Which is to be expected when people can't critically think and show some nuance.

I did, quite clearly, suggest that racism IS a problem and the reasons why I felt that way. But you ignored that... I wonder why?

[quote Easymeasy]@snoozer11 what about the birth announcement with the monkey that was in the newspaper? Do you have an excuse for that too?[/quote]
Doesn't need an excuse. It was one man's tweet. Not the mainstream media.

I love how you're using someone who was offered the best healthcare money can buy, best education for her children, a 35 million pound taxpayer funded wedding, a mansion, great food, a wardrobe of clothing, jewellery worth more than the average person earns in a year, and a life free of bills or financial worries as an example of how we are all oh so racist.

Especially when the person in question was raised in a white neighbourhood by a white father, privately educated in a predominantly white school and lived an entirely white western lifestyle.

@Wedontcare123

Can you not read? I am unsure how I can be clearer.
Universities are already looking at changing how they assess knowledge based on the fact many students aren't as adept at writing down their thoughts and are just as intelligent and knowledgeable in their subject. Oral exams have shown to booster attainment in that respect.

I also argue that social media and even the MSM massively distorts the actual scale of racism. Your average person isn't half as racist as those stirring up division on social media. We only get a snap shot of extremist views.

It’s human nature to stereotype based on something you have experienced eg…I see a young black male in dark clothing with a hood up….I’m wary….I’ve been mugged three times (this was London in the 90s) each time the assailant fit that description.

How is it that I’ve met a zillion more nice young black men over the years than those three baddies but it’s still not enough to 100% erase that little bit of “unconscious bias” I still have. Will it ever truly be gone? My subconscious probably thinks it’s helping me to stay safe; doing it’s job. (Incidentally, around this time we were also scared of “Russians” - society loves a bogey man)

I’m not far off 50; I remember the Brixton/Tottenham riots. The news made young black men seem terrifying. Winston Silcott’s face staring out; the papers would often report in a scaremongering way too eg “she woke up to find a black man in her room” - that’s an actual quote I’ve never forgotten because it frightened me at the time. Now I can see his being black was added as an “aggravating factor”, this was deliberate. We were and are conditioned. Is it a surprise people are biased against black people based on this type of reporting?! How could you not be? Young people now may say “oh I wouldn’t have been taken in by that”. Don’t count on it.

I now suspect we were intentionally told very little about important parts of our history in order to keep us all divided and also because a lot of it is shameful. I have made a point of learning what was never taught and also teaching my DC about it.

[quote Burgoo]@IdontWanna

If that is how you read it. I suspect you didn't engage my post with any kind of intellectual curiosity. Which is to be expected when people can't critically think and show some nuance.

I did, quite clearly, suggest that racism IS a problem and the reasons why I felt that way. But you ignored that... I wonder why?[/quote]
Because you started it all by mentioning an incident that was clearly racist and was found to be so in a review and questioning whether it really was . Not to mention the statistics that show that children (including under 12) that aren't white have been strip searched in much higher numbers than white kids.

That kind of mental gymnastics and denial is racist in itself, so yeah it made the rest of your post redundant.

@Burgoo

I also argue that social media and even the MSM massively distorts the actual scale of racism. Your average person isn't half as racist as those stirring up division on social media. We only get a snap shot of extremist views.

I’m basing it on personal experience

I think the UK is judged extremely harshly as being obscenely racist - when those people are living in a bubble of having not actually experienced the very consequential and severe obscene racism in most countries in the world. Yet the UK particularly likes to naval-gaze about it. Really, I think people in day to day life are mostly getting on with it and rubbing along. Only media and some strata of society are so obsessed with labelling and colouring everyone. Of course not denying that some shocking examples exist, but why the UK is made out as some fascist racist breeding ground is just simply not true.

Depends what you’re comparing it to. Is the UK racist? Absolutely yes, especially towards black people. (I’m white, but notice a definite difference between how my black colleagues are treated as opposed to how my Chinese or Indian colleagues are treated.)

Is the UK as racist as America, Middle East, Eastern Europe, and most of Asia including China and India? I’d say UK is nowhere near as racist as those areas.

I also think that police behaviour has got dramatically worse in the last couple of years: covid lockdowns with constantly changing and unclear laws created a real “us vs them” mentality where the more weak-minded officers have experienced being able to stop and fine basically anyone they liked for anything. The power went to their head.

I saw the global scale chart thing just the other day, we are considered pretty good, but that's probably more a reflection on how bad most countries are!

We shouldn't be complacent for sure and we need to ensure that we treat everyone equally, no hidden inequalities that are racist in origin. And in the 21st century we need to be on the look out for reverse racism too (I wasn't hired for an accounts job because I didn't speak Hindi I was told, it wasn't on the job spec at all, but they felt I wouldn't be happy??? Why who knows

Can you not read? I am unsure how I can be clearer

Yeah i can read thank you. You as much as said black people can't write essays then try and dress it up with language that you think makes you sound clever or like you know what you're talking about, with no evidence to back it up. I also read your other post denying that a clearly racist incident was racist. Which makes you... What exactly?

I think the U.K. is very racist and needs huge change.

Try reading 'White Fragility' Truly shocking.

@moanriver

I think the UK is judged extremely harshly as being obscenely racist - when those people are living in a bubble of having not actually experienced the very consequential and severe obscene racism in most countries in the world. Yet the UK particularly likes to naval-gaze about it. Really, I think people in day to day life are mostly getting on with it and rubbing along. Only media and some strata of society are so obsessed with labelling and colouring everyone. Of course not denying that some shocking examples exist, but why the UK is made out as some fascist racist breeding ground is just simply not true.

Nope. Nothing to see here.

[quote Burgoo]@Wedontcare123

Can you not read? I am unsure how I can be clearer.
Universities are already looking at changing how they assess knowledge based on the fact many students aren't as adept at writing down their thoughts and are just as intelligent and knowledgeable in their subject. Oral exams have shown to booster attainment in that respect.[/quote]
Second attempt at asking. Do you have any references for your assertion that POC aren’t as good at written assessment?