Ridiculously high heels - Apprentice Final Four

[axolotlfloof]

Just watching this week's episode.
Really pleased to see 4 women in the final, but why the heels?
Even Karen is wearing them.
They are bad for your feet, balance and just ridiculous.
My Mum's feet were destroyed by heels in the 60s, and I prioritise walking over heels.
Aibu?

@Jaffapaffa

I've been told today that I have to teach my class (Y8) that heels are part of a work wardrobe for women, and that if you want to succeed, it's essential to wear them.

I've objected several times, but have been told that it's not optional.

I'm really not comfortable with this at all.

But yes, apparently there's still a school of thought that says women must wear heels to be successful - hence their appearance in The Apprentice, I suppose.

Unless they are forcing men to also wear heels you can argue sex discrimination as they can’t force you to wear something that is bad for your feet because your a woman.

I know a union rep (jobs worth) who tried to tell an employer that it was sex discrimination that only woman were allowed to wear heels so woman should be banned from wearing them. The employer pointed out that anyone could wear heels if men wanted to they had no issue with this.

@aWolfinSheepsclothing

That depends on the TV producer. I really can't imagine they'd tolerate anyone turning up in the boardroom in jeans & t shirt. They're almost certainly provided with the clothes to wear, given a make up artist and hairdresser and have very little say in it themselves.

@Jaffapaffa

I've been told today that I have to teach my class (Y8) that heels are part of a work wardrobe for women, and that if you want to succeed, it's essential to wear them.

I've objected several times, but have been told that it's not optional.

I'm really not comfortable with this at all.

But yes, apparently there's still a school of thought that says women must wear heels to be successful - hence their appearance in The Apprentice, I suppose.

Utter rot - I worked I the city (had a reasonably senior job by the time I left) and I wore DMs mostly. On occasion I would wear really high heels - but that’s just became I’m quite tall (a power kick I suppose - it’s nice to stride around towering over everyone).

I think there's a gap between wearing jeans and wearing these outfits.
Maybe they had no choice, but if Shama had made it to the final, she wouldn't have dressed like that.

They always look like the cast of some US glamour soap from 2005
or Ru Paul's drag race?

@Theluggage15

Who says women think they have to dress in a certain way? Maybe these women like dressing like that. The truth is you don’t like seeing women dressing like that. That’s your problem.

Yeah, this.

I’ll summarise the rest of the thread now:

How dare they look glamorous and attractive? The traitors.

It can’t be that they dress that way because they want to. No. They must have been coerced into it by the patriarchy and they don’t even realise, the poor silly things!

If only they knew that by wearing heels they look CHEAP and DATED and that NOBODY in business wears heels or fitted dresses apart from junior admin assistants. Or people who don’t do any work. I know, I’ll enlighten them by boasting that I’ve had two promotions and have never worn heels, ever. Yes. Everyone should be like me.

Oh yeah, and those women TOTTER ABOUT looking ridiculous too. Don’t they realise that they should be wearing trainers all the time so that they can run away from assailants? The poor uneducated fools.

Dated look for a dated show.

@Jaffapaffa what subject do you teach?

I thought the heels scene where they are first lined up was like the start of a Robert Palmer music video, caricaturing a robotic sameiness of women under the male gaze.

@sst1234

The female contestants dress like stereotypical secretaries rather than business leaders. They look like cartoons with the hair and the fake lashes. No female leader in the real world dresses like a caricature anymore. The world moved on from this nonsense with the advent of tech business culture.

Same with the blokes though. Business suits are more for con men and used car dealers these days. Look at Dragon's Den - most of the contestants are wearing smart casual rather than suits/dresses - that's the reality of business these days. I'm an accountant, and have been wearing smart casual for many years, whether meeting clients, on courses or just in the office. I honestly can't remember the last time I wore a business suit. Our clients are the same, even "professionals" such as solicitors, financial advisors, architects, etc - very rare to have a clien turn up for a meeting in a business suit/dress.

In my work in the 80's I used to meet older ladies who could not stand up barefoot or in flat shoes (not ballet flats, just ordinary flat shoes) because they had worn heels all their lives. Even slippers used to come in a heeled version. This may be fine as a choice, I mean their body their choice.... but they weren't aware of what would happen, it was just what women were expected to do. The outcome for them in old age was that they could not walk safely. They could no longer balance in the heels that enabled them to stand and they couldn't stand with their feet flat to the ground because the tendon and muscle shortening was permanent. I can still remember being shocked, the first time I came across this.

@Jaffapaffa

I've been told today that I have to teach my class (Y8) that heels are part of a work wardrobe for women, and that if you want to succeed, it's essential to wear them.

I've objected several times, but have been told that it's not optional.

I'm really not comfortable with this at all.

But yes, apparently there's still a school of thought that says women must wear heels to be successful - hence their appearance in The Apprentice, I suppose.

I work in a corporate environment and zero young women wear heels(okay maybe 5%). I'm in senior management and stopped wearing heels 5 years ago. Have been promoted since. I work in a VERY male dominated industry.

If you must toe the line and teach your year 8s some school mandated nonsense then at least tell them this also for balance!

I am glad the social pressure to wear heels to be smart has gradually changed. For all the people who say you should wear what you want, generally people wear what is socially acceptable to fit in. When i first started working 'smart' was very much a skirt suite with heels. My friends that had uniforms would have heels as part of it.
I dont mind if other women like heels and dont find them uncomfortable - as long as the balance doesnt tip into you have to wear them to be seen as smart again. Because they are damaging.

@Iamthewombat

It can’t be that they dress that way because they want to. No. They must have been coerced into it by the patriarchy and they don’t even realise, the poor silly things!

If they had free choice, they wouldn't all dress the same, men & woman are clearly instructed in what to wear. In TV follow ups they never wear that kind of clothes, never look the same at all. Often they're barely recognisable. You'd never get 8 women nor 8 men all dressing the same if there was free choice.

Good point @hidethetoaster.
I've never come across this in schools.

[quote Badbadbunny]@Quincythequince

I think you’ll find Karen dresses not dissimilarly? Are you questioning her smarts, or general business acumen too?

Does Karen dress like that in real life? Does she dress like that when she goes for a normal day's work in her day job?[/quote]
Probably not!
But then probably neither do these women!
Why do you assume Karen doesn’t, but these women do.

Or alternatively, why is ok
For Karen to dress like this for TV, but not these women?

It’s a TV show!

I think for the show they do have to dress a certain way. If you look at it it's almost like a satire of the business world. Even when you see some of the 'challenges' they do - it's pretty much all orchestrated. The business world itself doesn't even function how it's portrayed on TV.

I mean on the show not necesarily all of TV.

@Beachbreak2411

Their heels were ridiculous! Almost as ridiculous as their business plans!!

Not quite!

Of course not - plenty of jobs have dress codes for both sexes.

Ah, but what about all the genders people can be ?

And if Karen were to dress, or regularly have dressed this way in real life, what’s it to you? Or anyone else on here slagging these women off.

Why is it anybody’s business, and why do they have to meet the standards of the women in here (which have replaced sexist Patriarchal standards), if that’s what they chose to wear!

How someone performs at their job is fuck all related to how is they look.

And I’d rather see someone come in dressed well, than someone who has clearly made with no effort at all.

[quote Badbadbunny]@Iamthewombat

It can’t be that they dress that way because they want to. No. They must have been coerced into it by the patriarchy and they don’t even realise, the poor silly things!

If they had free choice, they wouldn't all dress the same, men & woman are clearly instructed in what to wear. In TV follow ups they never wear that kind of clothes, never look the same at all. Often they're barely recognisable. You'd never get 8 women nor 8 men all dressing the same if there was free choice.[/quote]
I doubt that the female contestants adopted an entirely alien style of dress specifically for the programme. In any event you must see that the debate on this thread very quickly broadened out to attacking all women who chose to dress in this way, not just Apprentice contestants.

Kathryn in particular is a stunningly beautiful woman. With or without the make-up she has supposedly 'trowelled on'
To be honest, it's some of the comments on here I find more depressing than the high heel debate.

@Jaffapaffa

Unfortunately yes, I teach in the UK.

And it's female staff (non heel wearers) who have decided that this is non negotiable.

I despair, I really do.

This isn't what I want young people to think.

It's a shame they aren't willing to listen to other ideas. Do they know how outdated it is?

I hope they don't think women should still wear panty hose!

I think this thread shows feminism is completely dead on Mumsnet. Women can wear what they want to wear. They shouldn't be called grotesque and ridiculous, or have their intelligence called into question because they're wearing heels and make up. You keep on holding up the patriarchy. I wouldn't wear it but they can if they want. The idea that shama would have had more to offer because she was dressed modestly is sexist as hell.

By all means criticise them for their poor performance, or their terrible business plans, or boring business ideas. But none of that is relevant to what they are wearing.