To think Mumsnet should set an example with their own recruitment?

[Treacletoots]

Just that really. I've noticed Mumsnet are actively recruiting for a new digital marketing role, and it clearly states that the role is office based.

Having worked in this sector for over 15 years I know that this role is perfectly suited to working from home (if that's the candidates choice of course) with no detriment to performance.

Mumsnet's own jobs portal advertise flexible jobs for working parents, so why are they not applying the same expectations for their own team?

So Yes IABU, Mumsnet can do what they want or
no I am not BU, Mumsnet should be setting an example with flexible working for their employees...

@TheUsualShitshow

No it's not, but IME (well not my experience but as a manager of graduates) it's very hard to be a beginner in a role/industry where WFH is the culture.

The onboarding and usual learning and development continues as usual, but the small interactions, the quick questions, etc, are missed, and I think it all adds up to a gap.

I haven’t noticed that as a manager of graduates or a mum of graduate who’s been in post in a multinational for a couple of years now - being in the office five days a week is completely unnecessary. Those quick interactions and questions can easily be done by a quick call, esp as teams are all over the region/country/world - the model of one team in a physical office is evolving thankfully.

A pp mentioned the opportunity to recruit from outwith the local area and I completely agree with that. I have a couple of friends who work remotely here in Edinburgh for companies in London - they go down a few times a year but wfh the rest of the time. They were by far the best candidates for the role and the companies are progressive enough to recognise the benefits of wfh. In turn they have benefited hugely from my friends’ skill set - which they wouldn’t have done of wfh hadn’t been available.

@phishy marketing isn't what it was 20 years ago, tell me your budget and I can get you sales conversions through multiple channels.....all without leaving my bedroom 😂

It's a DIGITAL marketing role not print/tv etc. The office isn't needed if the employee doesn't feel comfortable going in.

Well it’s their company so it’s up to them. Presumably they know quite a lot about the role and how it will work best.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

Now people think it should only suit the employees

You say this like it's a bad thing. For far to long employment has been all about how the employee can serve the employer and chasing constant growth. That model is outdated and unsustainable and will have to come to an end very soon if we are to make it through this century as a civilisation. There is absolutely no reason anyone in 2022 should be forced to give up such a significant part of their life to their work, other than to sate unadulterated greed of the elite.

Be careful, you're sounding a bit too sensible for Mumsnet there 😂

I said this and had grown women saying they were going to report parents for working from home and managing their family life better.....was so bizarre I was in stitches for days

@Treacletoots thanks for raising this - the job spec should say 2 days a week in the office (the same as our other advertised vacancies) and so this was an oversight. We’ll get it corrected.

There you go OP, all sorted.

Result! Thanks @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

There is probably a good reason for the salary and the office based role. If it doesn't suit you don't apply, simple.

There is a short sightedness amongst some employers that 100% office based is still the default. I recall seeing northern powerhouse civil servant jobs being advertised based 100% in Whitehall (obvs pre pandemic) and couldn't reconcile how the optics of that looked in terms of a policy designed to "level up" (although this was pre TM/BJ so those words weren't used) could only be done by someone living in London. Clearly, elements of the role required connectivity into Whitehall structures and networks - but equally the same could be said about northern networks and structures.

Hopefully our pandemic zoom years will encourage employers to think more broadly that work is what you do not where you go.

@myrtleWilson

There is a short sightedness amongst some employers that 100% office based is still the default. I recall seeing northern powerhouse civil servant jobs being advertised based 100% in Whitehall (obvs pre pandemic) and couldn't reconcile how the optics of that looked in terms of a policy designed to "level up" (although this was pre TM/BJ so those words weren't used) could only be done by someone living in London. Clearly, elements of the role required connectivity into Whitehall structures and networks - but equally the same could be said about northern networks and structures.

Hopefully our pandemic zoom years will encourage employers to think more broadly that work is what you do not where you go.

Time will tell whether employers who allow wfh do better than entirely office based employees.

I like wfh but there is plenty of academic research showing it results in lower employee productivity.

And equally plenty of research which shows the opposite.

Anyway, that’s great MN has recognised the importance of flexible working - well done OP for highlighting it. This way they’ll be able to recruit the best person for the role from a wider pool of candidates, not just people who live in London.

@SirChenjins

And equally plenty of research which shows the opposite.

Anyway, that’s great MN has recognised the importance of flexible working - well done OP for highlighting it. This way they’ll be able to recruit the best person for the role from a wider pool of candidates, not just people who live in London.

If you look at MN jobs, there are lots of roles that are are ‘Remote’ or work from ‘Anywhere’.

WFH can be great if you have a decent space to do it. I’d hate to be new in my career (which the salary suggests) and having to work from my bedroom in a shared house.

@Wrinklepicker

WFH can be great if you have a decent space to do it. I’d hate to be new in my career (which the salary suggests) and having to work from my bedroom in a shared house.

Exactly. WFH from my desk in my nice spacious flat with plenty of Wi-Fi is a pleasure. WFH sitting on a bed in a shared house while 5 housemates are doing the same & we’re all using Zoom would be impossible.

The "work for us" page literally says this:
We don't only want to hire the best people: we want to retain them. If you need some flexibility, let us know and we’ll do our best.
So let them know if 2 days in the office doesn't work. Solved.

Two days in the office seems reasonable and OP, good of you to raise the issue and give Mumsnet Towers the heads up as to their mistake.

Obviously MN have now stepped in and said that the role isn't 100% office based.

I think some organisations are looking at the impact that closing their offices has on the local community. For example, small cafes and other amenities tend to pop up around office blocks and these businesses have struggled during the pandemic when people were largely WFH.
Not to mention the property management companies that specialise in commercial property, the services that clean and maintain the offices etc. Office blocks provide jobs for a lot of people.
Likewise, people who live near business parks (in our town there's a trend for a new housing development springing up near office blocks away from the town centre) are suffering because public transport has been cut due to commuters not making the journey to the office anymore.

So maybe it would be a good idea for some businesses to "set an example" by considering some of these factors before they switch to 100% WFH?

Oh and don't even get me started on the effect that all the WFH Londoners is having on our house prices! Recently houses have been flying off the market having received offers 25% over the asking price because London workers (being paid London wages) are no longer tied to working in a London office

I’d have thought MN might also have to think a bit carefully when employing active Mumsnetters in roles that include access to personal data. Although maybe I’m being a bit paranoid there.

If you look at MN jobs, there are lots of roles that are are ‘Remote’ or work from ‘Anywhere’

Yes - although not this one until the OP highlighted it.

The point about the impact wfh is having on city centres is interesting - whilst the corporate landlords might be suffering the local businesses in our neighbourhood are doing a roaring trade. Obviously the UK is more the SE of England so it’s great that people aren’t having to move for jobs so much any more - it works both ways.

@SirChenjins

If you look at MN jobs, there are lots of roles that are are ‘Remote’ or work from ‘Anywhere’

Yes - although not this one until the OP highlighted it.

The point about the impact wfh is having on city centres is interesting - whilst the corporate landlords might be suffering the local businesses in our neighbourhood are doing a roaring trade. Obviously the UK is more the SE of England so it’s great that people aren’t having to move for jobs so much any more - it works both ways.

It's funny - I am lucky enough to work close to home and can confirm that our local high street is absolutely booming because of more people wfh (we're in a sort of village suburb). Yet DP works on a small commercial park of office blocks surrounded by a housing estate and its dire up there. Local business all closed and bus service cut

Its a business and they make money from misery.

I suggest you boycott them with immediate effect.

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

I’d have thought MN might also have to think a bit carefully when employing active Mumsnetters in roles that include access to personal data. Although maybe I’m being a bit paranoid there.

Why would you want to employ people who have no experience of the service you provide?

Why would you want to employ people who have no experience of the service you provide?

That’s true. But remembering what happened with that intern who didn’t like the GC Mumsnetters, you’d want to be fairly sure that nobody would be tempted to take similar advantage of access to our data.