To think most women would prefer to be on a single-sex ward as hospital in patients?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

This was debated in the House of Lords in the early hours today.

I'm not up to speed on this so I don't know how many single-sex wards there are in the NHS. I know it's been promised again and again but for various reasons, mostly I expect to do with money, it doesn't always happen. Now there's the additional headache of trans-identifying patients to factor in, many of whom won't have made many (or any) changes to their bodies.

My hunch is that most of us (male and female), given the choice, would prefer to be in a single-sex ward when stuck in bed with a flimsy gown on and all sorts of undignified and painful things going on with our bodies.

Am I right?

YABU - who cares, mixed sex is fine
YANBU - yes, I would prefer hospital wards to be single-sex

"Lady" Nicholson has a long history of jumping on - and spreading - false reports and narratives because they suit her vehemently anti-trans agenda so I wouldn't count anything she says with much credence to be honest. You're naive if you think she's anything other than a bigot with an agenda - she's certainly no friend to women or LGB people as she claims, since she's consistently voted against our rights.

and

She's consistently voted against abortion rights, an issue which negatively impacts many more women than the remote possibility they might have to be in the same hospital room as someone who may or may not be trans.

As usual one poster is showing their deep prejudice against Baroness Nicholson.

The Baroness certainly IS a friend to women and children and many LGB people DO claim her as a friend. This poster has completely forgotten to mention that the Baroness has been integral in setting up children's charities and women's charities since the 1980s, in the UK and internationally. She has also represented women's groups and women's needs at the UN and other international organisations. Since the 1980s.

Yes, she is up front that she voted against same sex marriage, as did others and even Stonewall expressed issues with the legislation.

'Lady Nicholson, 78, the widow of Sir Michael Caine who helped establish the Booker prize for writers, became the target of LGBT activists’ outrage after revealing on Twitter that she had voted against the same-sex marriage bill in 2013 because she believed that it would “lead to degrading the status of women and of girls”. Times (Booker boss Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne attacked as homophobic, 25 June 2020)

Only a fool would take a single voting record as being indicative of a lifetime of 'anti' anything.

I have seen MPs vote down legislation that they fully want to happen, but the wording being forced through is not strong enough, or is not conveying the intention properly. I have also seen MPs being told what to vote for by the party leader. It is very foolish to accuse her of being 'anti' LGB because of that voting history.

What other LGB rights has she voted against?

Because these are very serious things you are accusing her of. You need to back them up.

It also seems that you are deeply prejudiced against women who want to maintain their safe sex spaces and we can only draw the conclusion that women's protections to you is 'anti-trans'.

I also post this link. In 1990, Emma Nicholson was recorded as stating:

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm198990/cmhansrd/1990-04-24/Debate-9.html

Therefore, I propose that, for up to 12 weeks, the judgment of the woman's own GP should be sufficient. (In relation to abortion.) She then goes on to discuss late term abortions and bringing them in line with other European countries on procedures on how they are to decided. It is all there and easy to find.

So, I look forward to seeing what abortion rights she has 'consistently' voted against (and I mean the voting record not an article stating that she has, but the actual voting records) and what other LGB rights she has voted against other than the same sex marriage law which she did not disagree.

Otherwise, I think the prejudiced person here is you Seven.

Reading through some comments and the mixed sex BAYS have thrown me off. I have never seen men and women with the SAME bay.

Unfortunately whilst there are some valid points you need to understand people are in hospital for treatment which is no1 priority. So I agree with the poster saying your lucky to get a bed at all.... its very true!

You're naive if you think she's anything other than a bigot with an agenda

Just in case my post gets deleted, I think that any poster who can say this about any woman (or man) who is tabling a debate about the needs for same sex wards/bays in hospital probably is deeply entrenched in their own political agenda.

And prejudiced.

It really cannot be clearer.

I do think single sex wards are preferable but facilitating this should not mean patients would have to travel further for care. This was the proposition for mental health beds in my local area and the distance involved was not insignificant.

Also to be mindful that single sex in the NHS has become single gender so those identifying as women would be admitted to a female ward even if they have male genitalia.

Unfortunately whilst there are some valid points you need to understand people are in hospital for treatment which is no1 priority. So I agree with the poster saying your lucky to get a bed at all.... its very true!

I have some sympathy with this if it is applied equally but it isn't.

The feelings of trans women are prioritised over the feelings of women within the NHS.

If it were really the case that 'you are lucky to get a bed' then this should apply equally to males as to females. While it isn't Baroness Nicholson is absolutely right to push for this.

Well a ward, is the whole ward, a place for up to say 40 patients in a specialty, say cardiac or orthopedics. Inside the ward there will be male bays of 4-8beds, and female bays of 4-8 beds. Plus side rooms.
Unfortunately sometimes these bays will occasionally need to be mixed, due to to pressure on the hospital.
It shouldn't happen, but it does, because goverment want to build houses everywhere but not increase infrastructure.... Like hospital beds.

off topic but I hadn't realised that Baroness Nicholson is the widow of Sir Michael Caine. Wow.

@lifeturnsonadime

off topic but I hadn't realised that Baroness Nicholson is the widow of Sir Michael Caine. Wow.

Michael Caine is alive. But still wow if they're married.

@lifeturnsonadime I've actually worked in a hospital and it was an admissions ward. People would be literally on corridors. You cannot make statements like this but then come with no solution.... the reason why wards are mixed is because patients are awaiting a bed. If your mum was ill what would you choose the next bed available on a mixed ward or would you rather your mum set in A&E for hours??
Again what is the solution?? Because each patient is awaiting a bed on the correct specialty ward doing things your way means patients would be lodged all other the hospital and would recieve poor care/worse.
I have experience of trans too... (don't quote me on the official guide lines though). Realistically the nurses would put the trans woman in the bay with wome because firstly that's what they want and secondly (rightly or wrongly) nurses do not have time to sort out a trans male in a male bay... can you imagine the mens reaction..... there's no easy answers

Not the actor Michael Caine. But the author Michael Caine.

He, I believe, set up the booker prize?

I can't answer question because... The only time i was hospitalised in last 21 years, I felt so awful I didn't care in slightest who else was in the room. I slept most the time. I had a room to myself, I imagine because they thought I had something horribly contagious ( I didn't ).

I'd choose quiet people over noisy ones. Sex I may be indifferent to. 22 years ago I was in hospital for birth of DC1 -- some of the other women had noisy tellies, really hard to sleep with all their noise going. I always say you have to be extremely ill to sleep in hospital.

Yeah, quiet wins over sex criteria.

Realistically the nurses would put the trans woman in the bay with wome because firstly that's what they want

But this completely ignores the rights by law under the Equality Act 2010 for Single Sex spaces and puts the wants of a male in front the of dignity and safety of women.

The easy answer is single sex unless it is absolutely impossible and then to do your best rather than what it is currently doing which is favouring males with trans identities.

@Helleofabore

Not the actor Michael Caine. But the author Michael Caine.

He, I believe, set up the booker prize?

Ooops.

Sorry for the derail.

Not having a go at you GreMay but I think that says everything doesn’t it? men would react badly to a transwomen so they end up put with women because women won’t make as much as fuss because we’re physically weaker than men & have been socialised to be nice

Abd when we’re not “nice” we’re called hateful bigots and sent rape and death threats

Why is male violence womens problem to solve?

fortunate never to have been anything other than a day patient except when pregnant. Granny was in with 6 beds per bay men in some women in others own loo in each bay and she had a wee man get into her bed during the night she kicked him straight back out i'd have been freaking lol

@thecatsthecats

I voted YABU, but I'm aware that I'm on the flagrantly nudist/invulnerable end of the scale.

I've been more comfortable with some medical scenarios than trained nurses and doctors. Seem to be missing a shame chip.

I’m like you in most cases but when I’m vulnerable and possibly not able to advocate for myself, definitely single sex. For critical and intensive care mixed is fine.

Hi Jacopo I did not even know this until read on here. Look up the story about Barbi Kardashian who is a male who violently attached his mother and then violently attacked a case worker while she was driving, he was in the back seat. He gouged her eye out and nearly choked her with his legs and he/she is in a female only prison. I do not care that he/she had a terrible childhood and saw violence from a young age, no way should they be in a female only prison where women are at risk. Most news articles about this here cannot be accessed. Also women's refuges/toilets etc I do not care if someone wants to be a man woman etc as I am so open minded but for women's safety we should feel if we go somewhere that we think is women only that we are safe and something as simple as going to the toilet can result in assault of women. Why is there just not a separate loo for trans. But if we speak out about it we are accused of been anti trans or what is the word a turf. When we in fact are only concerned for our safety to be in a women's only space.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Couldn't care less. I spent a hospital stay on a mixed sex ward, it's difficult not having privacy sometimes but that isn't impacted by the gender of the person in the bed next to you, and everyone is in the same boat anyway. If a trans person is in hospital it's because they're sick and vulnerable too. As for what parts they have, how would you even know, you're not actually ever going to see them naked even with the lack of privacy on wards.

It’s not about their genitals. It’s about their personality. Men, including transwomen, don’t behave like women. India Willoughby on Big Brother is a case in point - overbearing and intimidating and me me me me me. Why would any woman want to deal with that nonsense when unwell?

Equally men prefer male only wards. They are often embarrassed at women they don’t know seeing them in such a vulnerable state.

The law may not support it, but everyone has a sex they are born with and that absolutely cannot change. If people were to declare their sex not their preferred gender life would be so much better for women all round.

Seems to me that women are paying a very high price in being forced allow men to say they are women and access their spaces. It is absolutely appalling.

I am not in UK and have private health insurance. I was admitted three times in 2021 with rather serious illness and was so so glad I had a room to myself. I am probably a bit odd, but when ill and vulnerable I have no desire to chit chat and have small talk with someone and listen to all their ailments! I am deaf also so being on my own is better for everyone, oh and I snore like a train so that helps others too. I felt very safe too as the corridors all had CCTV and security watched the comings and goings into patient's rooms.

I did have to use public hospital before I went the private route, and the care was impeccable, staff were great, didn't see any male sex in the bay, but there is nothing like my own room when ill. Again I am fortunate, but I have cut back on a lot of other things to make sure my health premia are paid and up to date. Priority numero uno for me, and if that means no weekends away and no facials or manicures or mad shopping on Amazon, that's fine by me.

[quote GreMay1]@lifeturnsonadime I've actually worked in a hospital and it was an admissions ward. People would be literally on corridors. You cannot make statements like this but then come with no solution.... the reason why wards are mixed is because patients are awaiting a bed. If your mum was ill what would you choose the next bed available on a mixed ward or would you rather your mum set in A&E for hours??
Again what is the solution?? Because each patient is awaiting a bed on the correct specialty ward doing things your way means patients would be lodged all other the hospital and would recieve poor care/worse.
I have experience of trans too... (don't quote me on the official guide lines though). Realistically the nurses would put the trans woman in the bay with wome because firstly that's what they want and secondly (rightly or wrongly) nurses do not have time to sort out a trans male in a male bay... can you imagine the mens reaction..... there's no easy answers[/quote]
Mixed sex wards usually have single sex bays. Occasionally they are mixed sex for a few hours until someone can be moved but it shouldn’t be the norm.

Why would men react badly to a trans woman being in their bay? They are all unwell and in bed. What earthly difference would it make to them? Would they be offended by the long hair? The pink nighty? Clearly a transwomen is no threat to men so what is the issue? If men reacted badly you could reasonably suggest they grow up! And usually in this circumstance if preferred the transwomen could keep the curtains around her bed closed for additional privacy.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Not having a go at you GreMay but I think that says everything doesn’t it? men would react badly to a transwomen so they end up put with women because women won’t make as much as fuss because we’re physically weaker than men & have been socialised to be nice

Abd when we’re not “nice” we’re called hateful bigots and sent rape and death threats

Why is male violence womens problem to solve?

Exactly, misogyny and sexism all in one neat package.

Women are not collateral damage, human shields or service humans and it is way past the time this was acknowledged.

Woman should not have to plead or justify why they want single sex spaces and services and the fact that we are having to/expected to just shows how little women are considered. No man ever has to justify why he wants a single sex space, he asks and it is given.

If any of the men react aggressively, call the police. Isn’t that what women are now supposed to do instead of having single sex spaces? Why would it be different for transwomen?

can you imagine the mens reaction

Can you imagine all the womens reaction when we finally get angry?

@Annette32123

If any of the men react aggressively, call the police. Isn’t that what women are now supposed to do instead of having single sex spaces? Why would it be different for transwomen?

Didnt someone famously say we could tut?

That'll work.

YANBU

I would hate to be on a ward with men.