To think most women would prefer to be on a single-sex ward as hospital in patients?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

This was debated in the House of Lords in the early hours today.

I'm not up to speed on this so I don't know how many single-sex wards there are in the NHS. I know it's been promised again and again but for various reasons, mostly I expect to do with money, it doesn't always happen. Now there's the additional headache of trans-identifying patients to factor in, many of whom won't have made many (or any) changes to their bodies.

My hunch is that most of us (male and female), given the choice, would prefer to be in a single-sex ward when stuck in bed with a flimsy gown on and all sorts of undignified and painful things going on with our bodies.

Am I right?

YABU - who cares, mixed sex is fine
YANBU - yes, I would prefer hospital wards to be single-sex

I was on a mixed sex ward in my early 20s, the guy in the bed opposite was about 60 and kept telling me how much he loved younger women, then started to talk graphically about sex to the guy in the bed next to me.

I was in agony with gallstone pains at this time and was throwing up and out of it on morphine as well.

He came over to my bed and literally screamed at me then pulled the covers right off me because he was cold, so I was there in a nighty, in agony and shivering while this old bloke was shouting at me. I was terrified.

I complained when the nurse came to check on the ward and he started calling me all sorts of derogatory names, and I finally got moved.

It was an experience I have no wish to repeat.

The only times I've been in a hospital as an adult was when I had my babies. The first time, they had to call security because the husband of the woman opposite refused to leave. He was openly staring at me as I tried to breastfeed. He was a disgusting creep and like a previous poster, I'd discharge myself if I had to sleep in a room with men.

And why do some people pretend that men are no greater risk to women than other women? It's patently untrue.

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

What Babdoc says. I don't want mixed sex bays, but even if I did, I have no right to consent on the part of others.

Bays should be single sex, not wards.

Having single sex wards could make retaining staff in certain areas incredibly difficult due to the nature of the work.

Some specialities don't even have more than one ward to split patients by sex, it would be a logical nightmare.

@ElectricFlower

I was on an admission ward which was me and 5 men. I didn’t feel I could sleep until I was moved to a dedicated ward.

That's bloody horrific.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Worth remembering even where there are single sex wards, that only applies to the patients - there will still be male members of staff and visitors around. Nowhere in a hospital is going to be exclusively female only.

Members of staff are checked and qualified. And also worth remembering that you have a right to ask for a different HCP if your'e not comfortable with who's treating you, and a same sex HCP if that is what you prefer.

YANBU!!! I have a chronic illness and have had many, many, many hospital stays. Sometimes there hasn’t been a bed where they need it to be and I’ll get flung anywhere until they can find an appropriate bed for me. I have horrific memories of being 17 and being on a mixed sex (mainly male) ward whilst waiting for a bed whilst one man was talking very inappropriately to me. I was very poorly but this scared me as obviously I was only 17 so I tried to discharged myself and got a severe berating from the nurses.

Can you please tell us which cases these are?

Very recent huge twitter outcry about a woman who claimed she was sharing a ward with a trans woman and was discharged when she complained - the tweeter later recanted her story and apologised, having realised she was mistaken and the other patient was not in fact trans. Nicholson has highlighted that case as an example even though it has proved to be false.

I certainly would not see her as an enemy to women.

She's consistently voted against abortion rights, an issue which negatively impacts many more women than the remote possibility they might have to be in the same hospital room as someone who may or may not be trans.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

Single sex wards are recognised as necessary by the NHS.

I distinctly remember coming round from a recent operation and being watched by another male patient. I said loudly to the nurse ‘why is that man staring at me?!’, the GA must have loosened my inhibitions but it was a horrible feeling when I was vulnerable and nude apart from the flimsy hospital gown that wasn’t tied up.

I’ve recently become pregnant and am absolutely dreading the thought of being on a ward if men are allowed to stay overnight too. I’m already anxious that I’ll need to discharge myself early. I’m a rape survivor and being around unknown men when I’m feeling vulnerable is so difficult.

Last time I was in hospital I stayed on a 30-bed ward but the great majority of it was private rooms with own bathroom. They had a couple of 4-bed bays and interestingly there were only men in those, the women all seemed to have private rooms. I was v grateful to have my own room - I wasn’t at all mobile so I was stuck there 24 hours a day without even being able to go for a little stroll, had to use a bedpan etc for several days. Definitely would not have wanted anyone else around me!

@SevenWaystoLeave

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

Single sex provision isn't about exact ideals or a 'not very nice experience', it's about womens safety at a vulnerable time.

@ChessMaster3000

I'm not usually one for gender segregation, but I think single sex wards are a very good thing & aas very glad to be on one during my last hospital visit. Especially as we were all being monitored quite closely so every time anyone closed their curtains the nurses would come along and bloody open them again.

That's my experience of hospital too. You don't get a lot of privacy. I prefer single sex wards, not because I'm worried about being attacked, but because there's a real difference between how you feel being asleep or in a state of undress or ill (or any other vulnerable state) with a room full of women, and how you feel when there are men there too.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

Hardly anyone in the UK can afford to go private, so that's a non-starter.

Let's not get distracted onto saying that women not wanting to be on a ward with men is like racists objecting to ethnic minority patients or staff being around, or homophobes refusing treatment from a gay man.

It's not bigotry. Women don't hate and despise men as a class and constantly put them down on the basis of their anatomy (well, most of us don't).

Women have safety concerns. Almost all sex offenders are male. Most violent criminals are male.

I worked in mental health in the 90s and there was a mixed wards. Women were routinely harassed & attacked.

I also note the “you can’t possibly tell if someone is male simply by looking at them, it’s literally impossible” brigade is out. We can tell.

Single sex provision isn't about exact ideals or a 'not very nice experience', it's about womens safety at a vulnerable time.

I agree.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

People of different races, ethnicities, sexualities are not more likely to be violent or stronger. Male individuals, be they men or transwomen, are more likely to be violent and stronger than women, thus they are specifically riskier, therefore should not be in the same ward as females (by which I mean women and transmen)

I had a Massive issue when I had my first child nearly 7 as the NHS trust for some extremely bizarrre reason bought a load of reclining chairs for dads to sleep on within the bay of 4 women
I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea nobody was very happy about it apart from the 2 women who's partners were there and making tonnes of noise then in the morning they were using the same shower facilities taking ages and having no consideration for other people.
I was trying to establish breastfeeding and found the whole thing a nightmare so my mum kicked off we put in a huge complaint and they moved me to a side room with an en-suite and when I had my second child I had it written in my notes I wanted a side room as they still have this ridiculous system in place.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Why are the feelings of trans people important to you but the feelings of women are not?

I am a woman. The fact is, no one gets their exact ideal when it comes to a hospital stay, there is always an element lack of dignity/privacy unless you are in a private room. It's not very nice, and I'm sure lots of people end up sharing with others they're not entirely comfortable with - but when you remember some people aren't comfortable sharing a ward with people of a different race or ethnicity to themselves, someone who's a drug user or an offender, someone who's illness makes them disruptive, someone whose sexuality they don't approve of etc, you see why it's not reasonable to say patients can always pick and choose who they share with. Everyone in there is sick and vulnerable, at the end of the day. If you really need to be able to dictate who is sick and vulnerable next to you, go private.

You may be a women but you have stated that you believe that Baroness Nicholson has an 'anti trans' agenda and you have called her a liar.

It is absolutely clear that you think that the feelings of trans people in their choice of wards should be respected but that the feelings of women who, by and large, have stated that they need single sex wards to feel safe should be disregarded.

So I'll ask again why do the feelings of trans women trump those of women?

Women on this thread have given real examples of being intimidated in hospital by men. Opening wards to trans women means that any male can access them. This goes against the wishes and needs of women.

I also note the “you can’t possibly tell if someone is male simply by looking at them, it’s literally impossible” brigade is out. We can tell.

Absolutely you can tell. 99.9% of the time it's extremely obvious.

Last time I was in hospital for a 10 day stay it was a mixed ward but single sex bays with a couple of single rooms on the ward. The mens bays were one end and the womens the other each with a dedicated bathroom for each end. The only shared facility was a tv room.
This is acceptable to me as each sex was given their own spaces within the ward and there was no crossing over into each other’s. My bag contained 6 beds with more than one vulnerable person in the bay. I was bed bound so relied had to do everything from washing, toileting and changing my clothes in that bed. The woman opposite was an older lady who had broke her hip after a fall in her care home. She was suffering from dementia and would randomly pull off her gown, pull out her drips and flash the rest of the ward. Even with just other women around it was hard and no way would it be acceptable for her to have men in the same space.

If I have to share the bay with other people I would want it to be single sex. I guess men's bays might be somewhere off down the corridor, but as long as they are kept well separate and don't mix then I'd be fine with that.

I have mixed feelings on private rooms. The privacy does have many pluses and I don't mind spending long periods on my own. Great too for during the night as the rest of the ward can be noisy. However, they can also sometimes be a bit isolating, as the rest of the world may as well not exist.

@GodspeedJune

I distinctly remember coming round from a recent operation and being watched by another male patient. I said loudly to the nurse ‘why is that man staring at me?!’, the GA must have loosened my inhibitions but it was a horrible feeling when I was vulnerable and nude apart from the flimsy hospital gown that wasn’t tied up.

I’ve recently become pregnant and am absolutely dreading the thought of being on a ward if men are allowed to stay overnight too. I’m already anxious that I’ll need to discharge myself early. I’m a rape survivor and being around unknown men when I’m feeling vulnerable is so difficult.

I don’t mean to derail but do make sure you speak to your MW about this asap as there will be things they can do to help - you certainly won’t be the first woman they’ve cared for who’s afraid of strange men and you won’t be the last.

When I gave birth in January partners weren’t allowed to stay overnight on postnatal (due to Covid). I know a lot of people have complained about Covid restrictions on maternity wards but I vastly preferred not having men staying on postnatal overnight even though it meant my own husband couldn’t be there.

Also, some hospitals have private recovery rooms available on maternity, either to be paid for or for women who need them for other reasons - so maybe ask your MW about that possibility.

Hospital wards absolutely should be single sex.
Luckily the only times I have been admitted have been female only areas (maternity, gynae).
I would feel really uncomfortable on a mixed sex ward.