To not understand why people are driving to Poland?

[Tgbiyr]

Genuinely interested in whether I’m missing something.

I have a friend on Facebook who’s driving part of a convoy of goods for Ukrainian refugees from the UK to Poland. Toiletries, clothes etc. He asked people to donate goods, and now he’s asking people to donate towards fuel costs.

I cannot understand why anyone is doing this. Would it not be better to donate to the Polish charities supporting the refugees than transport lorries full of goods thousands of miles? Or ask for donations of goods to support refugees who come to Britain? What am I missing?

AIBU to think that driving lorries from the UK to Poland isn’t helpful, and the money would be better spent being directly donated to organisations in Poland?

Wanting to help only equates to actual helping if you’re doing what the people you’re trying to help actually require. Anything else is not helping. Surely that shouldn’t need spelling out?

In general, instead of running a lorry from UK, donate petrol money as close as possible to Ukraine (there is an donation account for foreign currencies at the National bank of Ukraine) or pick a charity active in the region. And donate your items as close as possible localy, even if the benefactor isn't from Ukraine in the end. The closer to the war, the more important is for help to not pressure local logistics.
Individual donations of stuff are useful in your own area (refugees who get to you, local charities), or if someone around you have a specific receiver in mind and understand their needs(Polish couple driving home).

Here in CZ donations of clothing are paused on many places, as the charities have limited capacity to sort it (ofc are expanding, but still limited) and without sorting, it is practically unusable for bigger refugee centers or further distribution.

I know many people prefer to buy and donate things, but the same money can help more effictively when sent - instead of buying and sending one sleeping bag, the charity will get two as a part of a full lorry of them (with significant discount from manufacturers or distributors), which is much easier to deliver and use in high pressure environment.

The only exception is the material which is currently unavailable in the region. Bulletproof vests are totally sold out - even in CZ, not sure how in Germany. I suppose that if someone gets hold of a bigger bunch of them , Ukrainian embassy would know how to deliver them (at least in CZ it does, the division is that humanitarian aid goes through charities and defensive equipment through the embassy).

Anyway, thanks everyone who follows the war, cares and wants to help!

Someone else said it best, where are the numerous van runs over to Calais to support the thousands of refugees in the jungle.

Having said that, Im not on social media so I dont see it probably.

@bellac11

Someone else said it best, where are the numerous van runs over to Calais to support the thousands of refugees in the jungle.

Having said that, Im not on social media so I dont see it probably.

There are charities aiding those near Calais - I know someone who has worked for an aid agency there. The French are the ones who aid them in the main. I’ve also seen the centres there on tv where these refugees can go to get warm clothing and food.

my elderly relative, aged 80, and in mainland europe spent a very long time finding bedding and then at the warehouse helped sort out boxes and boxes of clothes
the warehouse is destined for poland
think of all those poor people who have left everything behind - much as those on this thread here are sneering and criticizing, these people need help

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60806091httpwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60806091httpwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-

so heart warming
fire engines being donated to ukraine,

Agree…am wondering what all these lovely posters have done ,apart from bitching on MN 🤔

Well this lovely poster has been volunteering in a charity shop for 4 hours a week for the past 6 years. One of the charities which is part of the DEC and is on the ground organising and managing logistics. They have people who have made their entire career out of disaster response. They know a wee bit more about this sort of thing than Brian with his Transit van. Our charity estimates that every hour of time a volunteer gives up in the shop is worth £20. So £80 a week for 6 years? Quite a lot.

I also donated money through my bank, which is matching all donations up to £1m. There is also an excellent project in my city called Refuweegee (Glasgow based) which accepts donations of items for refugees making their home in the city. They have a very clear list on their website about what they do and don't need. (Example, at the moment they are saying no clothes and bedding, but yes please to toiletries, mobile phones, chargers and jigsaws). I am sure there are similar projects across the UK if people prefer to donate "stuff" rather than money. Makes far more sense not to drive a transit of nappies and soap half way across Europe.

The attitude to charity is weird on MN, and in the UK in general to be fair. Big is bad, costs are bad, paid staff are definitely bad. People should do it for free, charities shouldn't hold cash reserves in the bank and should spend every last penny - so that when something like Ukraine happens they can't just throw money at it? People volunteering or working with charities don't know what they're doing, they're grabby, abusers, pigs with snouts in the trough, and if you're talking about charity shop volunteers, probably thieves.

People seem to genuinely think that disaster response would be better if organisations like Oxfam, Red Cross, Save the Children and Unicef didn't exist, and it was all done on an ad-hoc basis by Brenda and her friends from the bridge club.

@FoxyFoxyLoxy All of this, exactly right! I've been around the aid community all my life (my Dad's career) and its a skilled, dangerous and specialist job. The debate around it in this country is exasperating - and my heart breaks at all the wasted effort and inefficiency in poorly directed aid. And yes, I've donated large amounts of money this time, and in previous crises and my work has involved projects with refugees.

@FoxyFoxyLoxy great summary in your last two paragraphs. Spot on!

The attitude to charity is weird on MN, and in the UK in general to be fair. Big is bad, costs are bad, paid staff are definitely bad. People should do it for free, charities shouldn't hold cash reserves in the bank and should spend every last penny - so that when something like Ukraine happens they can't just throw money at it? hmm People volunteering or working with charities don't know what they're doing, they're grabby, abusers, pigs with snouts in the trough, and if you're talking about charity shop volunteers, probably thieves.

People seem to genuinely think that disaster response would be better if organisations like Oxfam, Red Cross, Save the Children and Unicef didn't exist, and it was all done on an ad-hoc basis by Brenda and her friends from the bridge club.

I've seen the charity shop workers/volunteers = thieves, several times on here.

I work in a charity shop and last week we had three donations originally meant for Ukraine, one from individuals and two from collection points with too much stuff - LOTS of it went to the rag man. Ripped, stained clothes (including used tights, vest tops, shorts etc.), shoes with the soles practically hanging off, toys which had a million pieces to them etc. I get the people want to help but I'm not sure a 1000 piece jigsaw us going to be much use.

Our whole charity shop chain would fall apart without people like @FoxyFoxyLoxy so thank you to you.

Ripped, stained clothes (including used tights, vest tops, shorts etc.), shoes with the soles practically hanging off, toys which had a million pieces to them etc. I get the people want to help but I'm not sure a 1000 piece jigsaw us going to be much use.
Awful some people use it as a rubbish collection.
There is a local charity collecting clothing/mobile phones/ decent toys for the 1000's in local hotels, many sent totally inappropriate shite, broken toys, ripped shoes, bikinis.

@appleturnovers

It reminds me of the start of the Syrian refugee crisis when a local restaurant owner I knew started a drive among her nice 20-something middle class friends to "knit squares for the refugees". She wanted everyone to knit as many squares as they could, drop them off at the restaurant, then she would stitch them together into blankets to send over to the refugees. The absurdity and complete naivety of it tickled me and irritated me in equal measures.

Maybe not the most efficient way to get blankets, but I don't see how it did any harm.

@Gwenhwyfar
I agree that example doesn’t show harm but it’s a good example of being very inefficient. It’s taking the effort of many people over days or weeks to make a single blanket. A donation of a few quid would cover something like that.

I actually think that giving money AND supporting a van going are equally valid. Some of the a load are Ukrainians who have contact with family and are going to specific places that they know about. We supported one such journey and actually I also thought that it was good for my children to take a list to the supermarket and help find the things requested and understand that we should be helping those less fortunate when we can. Yes, they know that from food Bank giving but I think kids seeing this regularly is important. I think this is also the reason why there is more interest than those at Calais( who are supported by several charities) because many of the van runs are being done by Ukrainians and Poles and people who have family at risk of starvation or family in villages inundated by refugees. The NGOs/ Charities cannot be everywhere.

@ForestDad

So big charities that only exist because of money donations say that the best thing is to give them cash? Quelle suprise. I used to donate regularly to Oxfam but they seemed to spend about 5% of my donation in postage sending me junk mail to ask for more. I dreaded to think of the other waste.

Donate to Lumos.

They are already working in Ukraine. They focus on children. And their running costs are funded by JK Rowling (mostly via her signing over the rights to the Tales of Beedle the Bard, which to date has given them £18million) so they guarantee 100% of your donation goes to the project.

Polish Red Cross @PolskiCK posted more pictures from @David_Cameron's visit on the Polish-Ukrainian border with special thanks to him and his team t.co/4reF7C9SoC

David Cameron took donations to the charity which, if you read comments above, should only be supported with money.
I don't like the man, but wanted to show thst well sorted goods are appreciated, and needed!

Open your home up. Best way to help right now (if your country lets those fleeing get that far...).

@Cheeserton

Open your home up. Best way to help right now (if your country lets those fleeing get that far...).

@Cheeserton Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't in the position to be able to do so :(

Maybe not the most efficient way to get blankets, but I don't see how it did any harm.

It wouldn't have done any harm, but it wouldn't have done much good either, and therefore it's a colossal waste of time, time which could have been better employed doing something actually helpful - if your aim is to provide as much help as you can, rather than purely showing off and feeling good about yourself, that is. It would have taken several people a whole week just to knit four or five blankets square by square, whereas an established international operation can deliver hundreds of factory-made blankets in one shipment.

@KarenOLantern

Maybe not the most efficient way to get blankets, but I don't see how it did any harm.

It wouldn't have done any harm, but it wouldn't have done much good either, and therefore it's a colossal waste of time, time which could have been better employed doing something actually helpful - if your aim is to provide as much help as you can, rather than purely showing off and feeling good about yourself, that is. It would have taken several people a whole week just to knit four or five blankets square by square, whereas an established international operation can deliver hundreds of factory-made blankets in one shipment.

Yes, but some people have more time than money. If they hadn't been making the squares they may have just been watching television and not doing the thing you think they should be doing.

[quote DancingBarefootOnIce]@Gwenhwyfar
I agree that example doesn’t show harm but it’s a good example of being very inefficient. It’s taking the effort of many people over days or weeks to make a single blanket. A donation of a few quid would cover something like that.[/quote]
It was clearly a bit of a hobby for them as well though.
Inefficient yes, but I don't see it as just 'showing off'.

I met someone who danced for peace once. I asked her how much peace her dancing had caused. I probably wouldn't have been so flippant with someone who prayed so who am I really to say she shouldn't do it?

Time to end this thread, I think..