To not understand why people are driving to Poland?

[Tgbiyr]

Genuinely interested in whether I’m missing something.

I have a friend on Facebook who’s driving part of a convoy of goods for Ukrainian refugees from the UK to Poland. Toiletries, clothes etc. He asked people to donate goods, and now he’s asking people to donate towards fuel costs.

I cannot understand why anyone is doing this. Would it not be better to donate to the Polish charities supporting the refugees than transport lorries full of goods thousands of miles? Or ask for donations of goods to support refugees who come to Britain? What am I missing?

AIBU to think that driving lorries from the UK to Poland isn’t helpful, and the money would be better spent being directly donated to organisations in Poland?

Are we ok with a some of it going to the network the transactions are processed over?

Are we OK with transporting goods by road, using petrol made from Russian oil and putting money straight in Putin's pocket?

[quote Fere]@Tgbiyr you are quoting article with details from last week. Since then hundreds of thousands if people arrived in Poland.
Where would the money come from for all they need?
Polish government is foing fuck all. Everything is coordinated by volunteers.
Imagine if 4M people arrived in Britain over 3 weeks. Needing pretty much everything.
Local authorities are helping in coordination, there's not enough places for everyone.
In Krakow today, between midnight until 7 pm 12000 od Ukrainians arrived.
Those 6 vans of stuff, if well sorted, would be distributed amongst such numbers in no time.[/quote]
But its not six vans is it? It's vans collecting from every single village/town/city in the UK - every community page I'm on has a man with a van "to help the poor people of Ukraine who desperately need it all collecting the same stuff

"You will be able to opt out of communications from the animal charity. All charities have to publish annual accounts by law which set out exactly where the money goes. Its heavily regulated by the Charity commission. These groups of people setting themselves up to collect stuff (and then ask for money for fuel, on my experience) have no accountability. I've tried to investigate the arrangements with our local group sending vanloads of stuff over. It's all quite vague - someone here spoke to someone there etc. There are photos of happy people standing by vans in Poland but we don't really know where the stuff goes and how effective it all is. And we probably never will! The Red Cross on the other hand will have to assess the effectiveness of what they did."

I totally agree with this!

People do have mistrust of larger charities and query costs/overheads etc but then donate to joe bloggs on a Facebook post with a just giving page. Zero accountability- don't even know if they do what their just giving page says they will. They could just disappear with the money.

The aid effort is so much more than just getting clothes/food etc physically there. People on the ground are needed, it needs to be organised.

It's vans collecting from every single village/town/city in the UK

And France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Switzerland, Italy etc...

It’s a symptom of a loss of faith in charities and governmental organisations. I should imagine people have in mind the travesty of organisation after the Grenfell fire and the fact that donations and assistance from the general public plugged massive gaps in official help. Also all the bad publicity about cover ups and sexual abuse in large charities dealing with international disasters. And then the making of visors and masks during the pandemic. It’s not exactly logical to trust a man with a van not to actually be nicking your donations and posting fake photos, of course, but human beings don’t always act on logic!

those sneering, would you say this to someone's face?
or just anonymously here?

@MrsLargeEmbodied

those sneering, would you say this to someone's face? or just anonymously here?

I would only day it online.

The fact that you see people talking sense and taking the rational expert POV as sneering says a lot about you TBH. And yes of course I have told people to their face that money is the most effective way of giving.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

those sneering, would you say this to someone's face? or just anonymously here?

No one is sneering, they’re just pointing out the obvious. I don’t know anyone doing this, though, so it’s a moot point. But yes, I’d say so.

Grenfell is a good example of what happened to the donations of clothes:

6% went directly to those affected - but only those items that were brand new.
35% were sold in charity shops in the U.K.
The rest was sold to textile firms.

I know it’s fewer numbers, but still.
If you really want to give items, just donate to your local charity shop.

@AuxArmesCitoyens

hmm, what on earth does it say about me!

Don’t get me started! We have local “celebs” (not actually famous but get a lot of worship from other locals for one reason or another) that are taking a van of donations over. I don’t get it, how will they distribute it all? Leave it to the Red Cross etc, who can actually navigate any red tape and ensure the right people are receiving the right help. It just strikes me as virtue signalling to the highest level.

If people are mistrusting of charities then spend time researching to find a good one. It’s a lot less effort than driving to Poland.

Also on the point about not wanting money to go on admin etc well just think of the money being wasted on petrol. Plus you can find effective charities and some like JK Rowling’s charity has all the money going directly to the cause as the royalties from one of her stories covers the running costs.

Yes - virtue signalling and arrogant. Organisations and individuals with decades of experience are obviously best placed to know what refugees and others need and be able to deliver it. I know someone who’s been working in places with humanitarian crises for 20+ years, with Medicin Sans Frontiers. She is deeply skilled, has a Masters and is an expert in working with individuals experiencing conflict and trauma.

Why on earth would someone think they can just chip in and help without any prior experience or expertise?? It strikes me as the same sort of arrogance that led some people to ignore experts on Brexit, vaccinations etc. Almost as though being an ‘expert’ is some sort of dirty word, and we have to value the opinions of random bloke who fancies driving a van to Poland as equal to someone with twenty years of relevant experience.

Aww hun ur an angel. Hero!

This thread is awful.
From now on, I'll only read posts from the people on the ground & read what they DO need & if everything is being received / used. No-one else really has a clue.
@Fere your original post was very moving.

I'm no-one's angle (sic) on social media.

[quote LampLighter414]Aww hun ur an angel. Hero!

I don't understand it either. A friend of mine drove from Scotland with a van ful of stuff. He is the type.
Myself, I would rather give to a charity who knows what they are doing. Ukrainians don't even eat the same sort of food as us for goodness sake. They might prefer comfort food. Where are the tin openers? People don't leave with those tucked in their back pockets.
I know people want to help but alongside that is also a 'look at me doing good' element. Not to mention the environmental damage by driving there. It would also boost their economy a bit if Poland provided the food, which would be a good thing I think.

@mamabear715

This thread is awful. From now on, I'll only read posts from the people on the ground & read what they DO need & if everything is being received / used. No-one else really has a clue. *@Fere* your original post was very moving.

I'm no-one's angle (sic) on social media.

So you’ve not read from those on the ground, such as the Red Cross in Poland, saying what they want is cash? They are on the ground and do have a clue. You’re just going to carry on believing whatever, and, worse, refusing to read anything to the contrary, because it doesn’t fit with your belief?

I'm sure what the charities want is cash!
YOU aren't listening to what others have said about not entirely trusting charities since the Oxfam & Rspca debacles!

YANBU. These charities are asking for cash donations. It’s more effective than having to look for storage space for endless donations. Also why would you drive to the border(using petrol money and other expenses) when you could just donate the money to the charities/ experts on the ground, who are managing these poor people. They can but these things in Poland etc.
There is an element of people wanting to do something, however some may be doing it for kudos/saviour complex.

@secretsqizzle

So should I go ? I have a long wheel based van full of medical aid. From a nursing home that has closed down and has offered all their stuff to the NHS but they have no process to accept it.. Sterile bandages, catheters, stoma's , tourniquets etc..

I have crowd funded the diesel.
The distribution centre WANTS the stuff I have...

Should I drive it to Chelm in Poland go the distribution centre or to the local landfill . ?

The White Eagle Club in London m.facebook.com/kluborlabialego/?tsid=0.4081583716625824&source=result is collecting medical items for Ukraine - they are sending multiple large lorries a week and I’m sure they would be very happy to deliver your items for you. Possibly email them first or post on their Facebook page to see if the want them (can’t see why they won’t) - you have to book a slot now to drop off a van load of stuff.

Because Dave loading his van full of second hand toys and tinned beans knows so much better than multinational charities that specialise in getting hundreds of thousands of refugees fed, treated and sheltered every day.

The real issue is that a huge box of second hand clothes and toys and a bag of nappies looks better on Facebook than a link to a relief fund donation site.

@Ncwinc

Because Dave loading his van full of second hand toys and tinned beans knows so much better than multinational charities that specialise in getting hundreds of thousands of refugees fed, treated and sheltered every day.

The real issue is that a huge box of second hand clothes and toys and a bag of nappies looks better on Facebook than a link to a relief fund donation site.

Indeed. Also Dave might not be thinking it consciously, but there’s a strong whiff of imperial colonial attitudes about it all. The belief that what these helpless foreigners need is an Englishman (with no expertise in humanitarian work) saving the day with his van of old tat.

@mamabear715

I'm sure what the charities want is cash! YOU aren't listening to what others have said about not entirely trusting charities since the Oxfam & Rspca debacles!

But they are on the ground. That’s exactly who you said you wanted to hear from. If you don’t want to give to the RSPCA, then don’t. Give to another one.