To not understand why people are driving to Poland?

[Tgbiyr]

Genuinely interested in whether I’m missing something.

I have a friend on Facebook who’s driving part of a convoy of goods for Ukrainian refugees from the UK to Poland. Toiletries, clothes etc. He asked people to donate goods, and now he’s asking people to donate towards fuel costs.

I cannot understand why anyone is doing this. Would it not be better to donate to the Polish charities supporting the refugees than transport lorries full of goods thousands of miles? Or ask for donations of goods to support refugees who come to Britain? What am I missing?

AIBU to think that driving lorries from the UK to Poland isn’t helpful, and the money would be better spent being directly donated to organisations in Poland?

Above comment to OP !

Stolen from a local charity who spent years supporting refugees camps accross Europe but has stopped because physical donations are not needed and are creating more problems than solving them:

It is very clear coming from large charities DO NOT collect for Ukraine. Yet collections are taking place all over the place. I know of a large one in Plymouth. The last time this happened was for Afghanistan and it was not needed.

There are many many reasons why there is a request for NO COLLECTIONS, and it is being ignored. When experienced refugee charities and large NGOs are actually requesting do NOT run collections it is pretty sensible and wise to listen. You are not the expert in this.

Just because you want to help and you have seen it in the news does not make you an expert on shipping and collecting aid - it is a long and complex process that requires care and thought for others. I can point you in the direction of many experienced people if you would like to ask questions. I have some experience myself having shipped 10 containers across Europe! We always had receivers at the other end and partner charities.

This situation is very different from the refugee camps in France, Greece, Jordan or Lebanon. So again if you would like some information I can point you in the direction of experienced charities and groups to talk with!

If you are running collections and sharing posts across social media STOP and THINK.

1. Have you got a recipient at the other end - can parcels or containers be taken?

1. Are you partnering with a charity working on the ground - have they requested the items?

1. Are the items needed? For example, why send bottled water when they have this in Poland?

1. Have you checked out visas or custom charges - since Brexit it is much harder to ship aid items from the UK. Can you even get the items out?

1. The amount of money spent on buying items and shipping could be used to support the economy of the country.

1. How do you know the items are needed have you received an email or phone call directly from the charities in for example Poland asking for assistance?

1. Is there storage on the other end - can items be taken?

1. Is it safe to drive across, do you have experience of aid delivery?

Any of the refugee networks that I am associated with please feel free to add any more questions or provide information.

Thank you ☺️

@Tgbiyr you are quoting article with details from last week. Since then hundreds of thousands if people arrived in Poland.
Where would the money come from for all they need?
Polish government is foing fuck all. Everything is coordinated by volunteers.
Imagine if 4M people arrived in Britain over 3 weeks. Needing pretty much everything.
Local authorities are helping in coordination, there's not enough places for everyone.
In Krakow today, between midnight until 7 pm 12000 od Ukrainians arrived.
Those 6 vans of stuff, if well sorted, would be distributed amongst such numbers in no time.

@Amlaughingsomuchnot my flippant comment? Was it really?

If he wanted to collect stuff over cash it'd have been better going by courier alongside the other containers.
People do want to help.
There is 100's staying in hotels in Dublin.
I couldn't afford to buy individual products so donated some toiletries to a charity collection.
Apparently they were donated a lot of inappropriate crap high heels and ripped dirty clothes, the charity collectors worked for days sorting it, the volunteers are doing their best.

@Glitterlikeawinner fab comment.

This is the crux….take the lead from people and organisations with expertise.

[quote Fere]@Amlaughingsomuchnot my flippant comment? Was it really?[/quote]
Hmmnn the fact that you don’t consider your comment as flippant says a lot about you . Cannot be bothered to explain again…you just don’t get it!

@Amlaughingsomuchnot

I think your flippant comment about nail clippers basically sums up your lack of humanity! As a female I cannot imagine how awful it is having a heavy period,a baby without nappies and the horrific stress of literally losing everything! Poland doesn’t actually have the stock to cater for these poor people! The charity’s are not actually getting the money to theses people yet whereas donations from the UK are .

‘From further afield there are mountains of donations inside and outside the centre, many useless. Some is expired food and needs to be thrown away, wasting precious time. “Of course, we received support from so many organizations but some of it was just a pile of trash,” the mayor said. “We had to spend so long sorting through it and throwing things away. It was insane.” “We need a universal good, which is called cash,” he added. That allows him to invest in what is needed, when it is needed.’

www.unhcr.org/uk/news/stories/2022/3/6230b3094/polish-border-town-welcomes-refugees-ukraine-itself-need-help.html

Polish infrastructure is under severe pressure. They need more houses, school places, roads, hospitals. They need money. They do not need British people creating more work for volunteers by sending over goods which can, and should, be purchased in Poland, which in turn supports the Polish economy.

Ignoring professional advice is hindering, not helping.

It's a total waste of everything. People on the ground there know what they need and where to get it.. they just need cash to buy it. More importantly, they don't have time to sort through loads of donated stuff to see if it's what they need. Makes people feel good to donate, but it's just selfish imo. Send them money, and if you can't, don't feel bad about it.

Sorry @Fere my comment was for OP .

I think there’s a big difference between a specialised delivery, of say medical equipment, that’s been requested and some random unasked for delivery of secondhand goods. I can’t imagine anyone being against the first but the second is not the most efficient way of helping. And sure if you turn up with free stuff in any place you’ll be able to unload it but it’s not necessarily that helpful.

@Tgbiyr..have quickly read this article and it is about food that is a problem that has been donated…not nail clippers or sanitary towels!

This thread has been a massive eye opener for me...i have been dodging the news so i am ignorant to what's going on right now..heard the odd story here and there about people donating and thought "oh good there are still good people in the world" but now even that has been taken away...human beings really are horrible selfish creatures...

[quote Amlaughingsomuchnot]@Tgbiyr..have quickly read this article and it is about food that is a problem that has been donated…not nail clippers or sanitary towels![/quote]
Perhaps read it again. It does mention that expired food is amongst the useless things donated, but it is not talking only of food.

And still the point is missed. Toiletries are available to buy in Poland. Donate money so they can be bought there if you want to give. There is no need for it to be driven there from the UK. It isn’t helpful.

[quote Amlaughingsomuchnot]@Tgbiyr..have quickly read this article and it is about food that is a problem that has been donated…not nail clippers or sanitary towels![/quote]
If you read to the end it’s very clear what the Polish want: ‘“We need a universal good, which is called cash,” he added. That allows him to invest in what is needed, when it is needed.’

@Glitterlikeawinner Really well said. It seems that some well-meaning people on this thread find it hard to judge what is a reputable and reliable source.

So on the one hand they hear well-established charities full of specialists working in this field for decade collectively saying “don’t donate clothing, donate money”. And on the other hand they’re seeing a local bloke on Facebook with a van saying “give me your old clothes and some dried pasta, I’ll drive to Poland and they could help a Ukrainian family”. And the conclusion they draw is that it’s a mixed picture with no clear conclusion or right response. Which is blatantly not the case!

@Newbabynewhouse

This thread has been a massive eye opener for me...i have been dodging the news so i am ignorant to what's going on right now..heard the odd story here and there about people donating and thought "oh good there are still good people in the world" but now even that has been taken away...human beings really are horrible selfish creatures...

No one is suggesting people aren’t trying to do good by donating. Obviously donating items, organising donations and arranging to deliver them are incredibly thoughtful and kind things to do. It does show human kindness.

However, there are more effective ways to help. It’s great that people are motivated to help, but maybe there needs to be a bit more guidance and listening about what help is needed.

It makes no sense to me.

I think from reading this whole thread people have different opinions on how to help.I personally think that I am doing the right thing and if other people want to donate cash which might be absorbed by the paperwork etc ..all good. Thankfully we are not the poor desperate people who need this help!

Haven't read the thread but the local group doing this near us is posting images and videos of stuff which was originally intended for refugees but they ended up taking it into Ukraine itself (which probably includes refugees from other areas of Ukraine) which makes more sense imo, and the stuff seems to be being used. They are doing this in connection with a Polish centre somewhere near here. They were asking for certain things and it was all sorted here in warehouses into specific boxes and is being delivered by different people/companies I think, the group on Facebook where the stuff is ending up is EastLancs4Ukraine Facebook page, one of the lads lives/used to live in Ukraine for part of the time. Seems different people/companies drive stuff to Poland but then the group of lads over there on EastLancs4Ukraine take the stuff from Poland into Ukraine themselves, and deliver it themselves to central and Eastern Ukraine, and remote areas of Ukraine where it's needed, and which are directly affected by the conflict. It's dangerous, so yeah they are brave. They also said aid organisations are not in some areas. Just looked on there now and they were also taking into Ukraine : armour, boots, medical supplies, and other things for the military donated by Americans and others. And cash. They also posted pictures of a delivery to British and Georgian volunteer fighters, which looked to be gratefully received by them. EastLancs4Ukraine said the other day they are closed for physical donations at the moment.

If people are donating for people in Poland maybe it's because a large influx of people in some areas means things get sold out? Or not everything is provided? But EastLancs4Ukraine posted that humanitarian centres in Poland are turning away aid now. And directing it into Ukraine itself.

Haven't read the thread but the local group doing this near us is posting images and videos of stuff which was originally intended for refugees but they ended up taking it into Ukraine itself (which probably includes refugees from other areas of Ukraine) which makes more sense imo, and the stuff seems to be being used. They are doing this in connection with a Polish centre somewhere near here. They were asking for certain things and it was all sorted here in warehouses into specific boxes and is being delivered by different people/companies I think, the group on Facebook where the stuff is ending up is EastLancs4Ukraine Facebook page, one of the lads lives/used to live in Ukraine for part of the time. Seems different people/companies drive stuff to Poland but then the group of lads over there on EastLancs4Ukraine take the stuff from Poland into Ukraine themselves, and deliver it themselves to central and Eastern Ukraine, and remote areas of Ukraine where it's needed, and which are directly affected by the conflict. It's dangerous, so yeah they are brave. They also said aid organisations are not in some areas. Just looked on there now and they were also taking into Ukraine : armour, boots, medical supplies, and other things for the military donated by Americans and others. And cash.

You're posting this in the tone of "our brave lads" but really - this is lunacy. They're (with how much military or humanitarian experience between them?) going into places that aid agencies haven't managed to yet, to drop cash, military armour and other donations inside an active warzone, and then posting about it on Facebook. What could go wrong?

@Amlaughingsomuchnot

What about the 'paperwork' of exporting items to The EU?

The news has shown masses of donated clothing dumped in a car park because there are not enough people to sort through this. Refugees are on the move so cannot take a lot of things. If people really wanted to help they would donate money and not need to be seen to be doing their bit which seems to be the case. I do not see the same help given to all calamities everywhere unless there is a case for being able to be noticed - in many instances we all can see quite clearly.

The issue I have had with charities is never knowing what my money is actually used for. I appreciate they would have staff to pay etc but donate - standing order - to an animal shelter. I receive marketing mail Atleast once a week. It drives me insane! The cost must be phenomenal..I would rather my money be spent on food, or medical supplies rather for postage or graphic design costs!
Where are these charities based which everyone is donating to? I know money/cash cannot be withdrawn from cash points/ atms in Ukraine. If it’s Poland? Are we ok with a some of it going to the network the transactions are processed over? If someone has the time and is willing to help irrespective of whether they are virtually signally or not.. let them they may just help someone along the way that may not have access to charities/aid and I say that coming from a third world country who had a home built by one of those 6th formers😉

@August1980

The issue I have had with charities is never knowing what my money is actually used for. I appreciate they would have staff to pay etc but donate - standing order - to an animal shelter. I receive marketing mail Atleast once a week. It drives me insane! The cost must be phenomenal..I would rather my money be spent on food, or medical supplies rather for postage or graphic design costs! Where are these charities based which everyone is donating to? I know money/cash cannot be withdrawn from cash points/ atms in Ukraine. If it’s Poland? Are we ok with a some of it going to the network the transactions are processed over? If someone has the time and is willing to help irrespective of whether they are virtually signally or not.. let them they may just help someone along the way that may not have access to charities/aid and I say that coming from a third world country who had a home built by one of those 6th formers😉

You will be able to opt out of communications from the animal charity. All charities have to publish annual accounts by law which set out exactly where the money goes. Its heavily regulated by the Charity commission. These groups of people setting themselves up to collect stuff (and then ask for money for fuel, on my experience) have no accountability. I've tried to investigate the arrangements with our local group sending vanloads of stuff over. It's all quite vague - someone here spoke to someone there etc. There are photos of happy people standing by vans in Poland but we don't really know where the stuff goes and how effective it all is. And we probably never will! The Red Cross on the other hand will have to assess the effectiveness of what they did.