AIBU to be totally confused (cost of living crisis)

[LittleBitHeiressLittleBitIris]

AIBU to not be able to understand/ grasp the scale of impending disaster that is building over the increased cost of living?

I genuinely don't see how millions of people with outgoings that are about to be actually higher than income is going to play out.

I'm not trying to be goady and obviously realise no-one has a crystal ball but am I missing something? Has this ever happened before in other recent times/ other cultures and what was the result. I can't even imagine what could happen.

I feel really clueless! Any ideas/ opinions/ further reading much appreciated 👍

The previous posts about the french are true- they protest & largely get listened to- they also have a centrist government.
They wouldn’t tolerate an elitist old boys club dressed up as ‘middle class’ who give out public funds via dodgy contracts to their old mates. They still have a lot of unions. They also have a higher minimum wage, and the government subsidise heavily the cost of living for childcare, and the energy cap for example. People need to understand if they vote Tory, we get a selfish government & a way of life is that is based on selfishness. X

All my friends wih the Hello Fresh bundles and the car @£390 a month will be struggling. They will have to go back to actually buying a car for £2000 and making it last for a few years. And have to learn to cook from scratch. I can't see people managing tbh

Imo though it's not down to the government to ensure people have good lives .

Who runs the welfare state?

Who raises taxes?

@hattie43

I think people can dig in for a tough time / short time knowing they'll be an end to it but it's the long term poverty that is totally grinding .

People are saying it's a result of the war and pandemic causing price increases now but for many they've not lived well at all since forever.

Imo though it's not down to the government to ensure people have good lives .

What is government for, if not to aim for providing its citizens with a good life?

@fallfallfall

what did people do in the 20's; well simple meals, extra clothing and nothing new. homes were tiny and furniture sparce. people used their time making and selling. no tv, no "nail art", no phones in most homes, people added things to meat to stretch it out (oatmeal in ground beef, eggs and breadcrumbs). oil filled lamps for a couple hours after sunset and in bed by 8-9. awake with the sun. they used scraps of material to make rugs in the winter. but everyone was in the same situation (although some were very wealthy).

But everybody wasn’t in the same situation. People who could afford coal for their fires and decent food weren’t in the same position as the poor. Are you saying we should accept a huge reversal in living conditions as our fate?

Also I think it is helpful in some ways to point out how many people survived a hundred years ago, I think it’s dangerous to present it as some kind of super stoic era where people just got on with it. Read ‘Working Class Wives’, ‘Round About a Pound a Week’, Our Spoons Came From Woolworths (truly heartbreaking), Tuppence to Cross the Mersey, etc. Times were insanely hard. We should never, ever go back.

There were reasons many parents ‘wanted’ their kids to be domestic servants, a secure roof over their heads and food on the table being two of them.

what did people do in the 20's; well simple meals, extra clothing and nothing new. homes were tiny and furniture sparce. people used their time making and selling. no tv, no "nail art", no phones in most homes, people added things to meat to stretch it out (oatmeal in ground beef, eggs and breadcrumbs). oil filled lamps for a couple hours after sunset and in bed by 8-9. awake with the sun. they used scraps of material to make rugs in the winter. but everyone was in the same situation (although some were very wealthy).

Here is the issue though. So many people (not all) who claim that money doesn't stretch far enough are buying kids breakfast cereals instead of porridge, won't scratch cook, buy squash instead of drinking water. Must have TV/ games consoles. Not for everyone but a lot of people changes to the way you cook and eat makes a huge difference to budget.

Landlords aren’t allowed to increase rent by that much. Where is he?

A landlord can increase the rent by as much as they like so long as it is fair and in line with the market and the tenant is not on a protected/ regulated tenancy. Most people are on a periodic or fixed tern type of tenancy. For Fixed term tenancies the rent can only be increased at the end of the fixed term by agreement. If you don't agree the landlord refuses to sign the new tenancy. For periodic tenancies they can only increase once a year. There are no limits to the amount if they are in line with the market.

Around here rents have gone up by over a third due to the market being distorted by a booming Air BnB market. My neighbour's rent went from £600 to £850pm when the annual rent increase came through. She had to leave.

I think there is some truth re being able to live more simply BUT for most the big expenses are housing, utilities & transport, not food or easily cut treats

What people used to do is live in overcrowded & cold homes with insufficient food… don’t think any of us want that!

Other countries (India,Turkey, Argentina all spring to mind) have recently experienced hyperinflation and the truth is the poor can’t afford food

People used to heat one room. Unfortunately modern heating heats all the rooms.
Also you'd have a sack of potatoes in the unheated scullery, and food would not include avocados, fresh green beans in Feb, etc We need to wean ourselves off such an exciting diet.

Part of it must be getting used to lower temperatures. My DGPs lived with one fire in the living room which needed lit every day.

@fallfallfall

what did people do in the 20's; well simple meals, extra clothing and nothing new. homes were tiny and furniture sparce. people used their time making and selling. no tv, no "nail art", no phones in most homes, people added things to meat to stretch it out (oatmeal in ground beef, eggs and breadcrumbs). oil filled lamps for a couple hours after sunset and in bed by 8-9. awake with the sun. they used scraps of material to make rugs in the winter. but everyone was in the same situation (although some were very wealthy).

No, people in the 1920s dd not live in some kind of arts and crafts idyll., in which they were poor but happy with a simple life. In reality they suffered from high levels of malnutrition and poor housing which, combined with the lack of affordable health care, led to poor health, high levels of infant and maternal mortality, birth defects and premature death.

But yay, rag rugs.

@sjxoxo

The previous posts about the french are true- they protest & largely get listened to- they also have a centrist government. They wouldn’t tolerate an elitist old boys club dressed up as ‘middle class’ who give out public funds via dodgy contracts to their old mates. They still have a lot of unions. They also have a higher minimum wage, and the government subsidise heavily the cost of living for childcare, and the energy cap for example. People need to understand if they vote Tory, we get a selfish government & a way of life is that is based on selfishness. X

Amen, yes 100%. Family policy is entirely different, a family-centric approach.

Are you saying we should accept a huge reversal in living conditions as our fate?

Well that was the Tories explicit goal when they came back to power in 2010, and even more so in 2015. Dismantling the welfare state, going back to a Victorian class system. Looks like their plan is doing great.

@QweenBea

All my friends wih the Hello Fresh bundles and the car @£390 a month will be struggling. They will have to go back to actually buying a car for £2000 and making it last for a few years. And have to learn to cook from scratch. I can't see people managing tbh

You don’t sound like you are their friend

It's all interlinked and becomes a vicious circle.
It obviously depends on your outgoings but if you double a bill it's obviously going to squeeze elsewhere except it's not just one bill it's likely to be majority of bills and food unless on pre fixed elements. Add in any debts interest rate likely to increase as bank increases rates to try and prevent aspects and it's the perfect storm.

There are elements that as a nation we are far too used to really cheap prices especially on meat and dairy products and we have become way too fussy on a whole with the inability to cook such as cuts of meats and the amount of meat. But with wheat prices expected to double even "eating like a student" of pasta and bread will increase.

There are things people can do to help themselves lessen the blow such as reduce all bills where possible, cut out non essentials, seek debt advice to get things manageable and also go back to basics with cooking such as using dried pulses and cheaper meat cuts, going to veg markets at the end of the day when things are cheaper, changing phone contracts or fixing into a mortgage rate.
Bits are good at having their heads in the sand though and then complaining.

What tends to happen is that some businesses/employers can afford to pay a little more. In better times, people won't always leave for a higher wage - maybe they like their current job, or the hours suit them.

In difficult times, people leave, sometimes to join a completely different (better paid) career. Badly paid jobs like care work are losing staff at a rate of knots because people need to choose better paid work. Then eventually lack of staff forces higher pay in the poorer paid roles (this happened in retail and lorry driving last year!).

People also start changing their choices. They delay having kids. If childcare costs more than they earn, more women leave the workforce. But again where that happens, the reduction in staff supply can push wages up.

But of course - people will simply be poorer. Contrary to what you read on here, most families in the UK spend a bit on treats and extras. More families just won't be able to.

I remember filing down old half pennies to put in the electricity meter

It is going to be rough and people will cut back I.e. Ditch Sky, Netflix, holidays etc

That will have an impact ie Less disposable income which will filter through the food, supply chain

We are in a rough ride but the cost of cheap petrol does not sit easy with me if the price is at the cost of dead Ukrainian people, children 😔

Well are we going to force a general election? If its going to be that bad ?
In the 1920 they had general strikes. If people think we are returning to those days I suggest we return to those mentalities as well sharpish.
It’s actually going to be nowhere near as bad as people are making out at all. Lots of people have had decent pay rises this year that will come to balance any increase in food and fuel prices if you haven’t I suggest you ask for one but I’ve been suggesting that on about 13 threads over the weekend and I just get we can’t …..well then it’s your own fault then.

@fallfallfall

what did people do in the 20's; well simple meals, extra clothing and nothing new. homes were tiny and furniture sparce. people used their time making and selling. no tv, no "nail art", no phones in most homes, people added things to meat to stretch it out (oatmeal in ground beef, eggs and breadcrumbs). oil filled lamps for a couple hours after sunset and in bed by 8-9. awake with the sun. they used scraps of material to make rugs in the winter. but everyone was in the same situation (although some were very wealthy).

Oh yes, the "why don't paupers in 2022 just live like paupers in the 1920s/1520s" stuff. Yes, nail art and TV and rugs from IKEA, those are the problem.

The French have the second highest suicide rates in western europe, higher than those in the UK. Whatever protest achieves it isn't a safety net for despair.

@fallfallfall

what did people do in the 20's; well simple meals, extra clothing and nothing new. homes were tiny and furniture sparce. people used their time making and selling. no tv, no "nail art", no phones in most homes, people added things to meat to stretch it out (oatmeal in ground beef, eggs and breadcrumbs). oil filled lamps for a couple hours after sunset and in bed by 8-9. awake with the sun. they used scraps of material to make rugs in the winter. but everyone was in the same situation (although some were very wealthy).

There was no welfare state and children and the elderly died. Of course they died from “malnutrition” and not “starvation.”

You think we should accept this?

there are 3 types really....

Those who were struggling already
those who are very wealthy
and those in the middle.

if you are in the middle with sky, netflix, top or the range mobiles and eat out and take a ways regularly. there are expenses that can be cut before eat or heat becomes a personal problem.

If you are wealthy you may have some small changes now but no major concerns.

if you are already struggling it will be dire.

but while those in the middle and top income can make personal changes to muddle through, this will further worsen the situation. So get rid of your cleaner (cleaner loses more income), stop getting take a ways (take a way buisness may reduce staff, shut), ditto for pubs and non essential shops. Covid, followed by world wide unrest, followed by recession is going to collapse many abroad travels companies. Initially, this could cause a boom for UK holiday market. This is already apparent with the costs for uk breaks so high this year.
But also risks people not being able to afford UK break either and that would knock on impact to UK holiday industry.

On a very personal level there are expenditure costs we can cut, so while concerned about the rising cost of living we are able to adjust and cope at the moment. Access to food due to availability and unrest due to lack of food is a concern too.

As a culture we over consume and that needs addressing but history has shown that those at the top will still over consume while those at the bottom starve

@Bringsexyback it's not quite that easy to get a pay rise. I earn barely above minimum wage and we are fighting with the union but this year's proposed one is rubbish. The union members can say no to this, which I have done but doubt we will get anywhere with it.. There is one benefit of my job though and that's food. Working in a small supermarket we sometimes get stuff that's past its best before date for free. The excitement of a pack of mini brownies or whatever there is will soon mean a lot more to us.

We won't go back to the 1920s and making rugs and giving up phones because goods are still going to be much cheaper than they were then.
And it's not because parents are buying cornflakes (85p for 750g box of Cornflakes vs 75p for 1kg of porridge oats at Asda - that difference will not pay the rent or the heating bill) or squash (1 pound for 1.5l = 60 glasses). These savings are dwarfed by the price rises.

First, rents will need to come down. People won't be able to pay the prices. They're currently out of synch with income (as are house prices)
Second, governments will have to help out to avoid massive social unrest.
The UK is a rich country, it can afford this if managed correctly. I'm far more worried about low-income countries where a far greater proportion of household income goes on basics like food, energy and transport and governments ahve far less resources to help them. .