To think holiday homes could be used to house lots of refugees

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

Uk has a LOT of holiday homes and empty second homes. Surely they could be used to take a lot of Refugees aswell as spare rooms? It could support local economies all year round too rather than just in peak tourism seasons? The crisis is going to escalate rapidly in Ukraine- there are 44 million people in the country and so far it’s about 2 million who have fled and now countries like Moldova and the Poland are starting to struggle so we need to step up.

Aibu? It seems like an obvious solution. Obviously using the empty homes of oligarchs too is a preference.

I read an article about a woman who gave her French holiday home to a refugee family.

Also @HELLITHURT knock it off.
Language and culture must be preserved. It's not utilitarian.
I despair at the lost of sweet Gaelic and Scots. I'm not even from the UK but this highhanded attitude towards languages is astonishing. Everyone else in the world speaks multiple languages

@Mellowyellow222 yes you are probably right. But it was the attitudes on this thread that is triggering- this ‘but I’ll lose my 3 k a week’ - it makes me rage because it’s what has destroyed my home. Money at all costs. Fuck the people- Ukrainian or anyone.

@IchabodCrane

Also *@HELLITHURT* knock it off. Language and culture must be preserved. It's not utilitarian. I despair at the lost of sweet Gaelic and Scots. I'm not even from the UK but this highhanded attitude towards languages is astonishing. Everyone else in the world speaks multiple languages

Ok, I'll ask again! Who sold there homes to "outsiders"?

It's all about who bought the honed are they are vermin, but the welsh sellers??? What about them?

So my house is worth £50k, the son of my dads best friend offers that, an"English" person offers £60k, so I that it!

So the welsh are benefitting? Not innocent parties?

So hey, they are selling their soul, so you knock it off?

@IchabodCrane

There are plenty of jobs. What the uk lacks is a universal work ethic.

@Bunnyfuller

The only jobs are in hospitality and tourism because the second/holiday home owners have proved locals out of living there and they’re miserable ghost towns out of season. People moving in will create jobs by being there, and unlike so many brits will be happy to work and get on their feet.

Rural depopulation in Wales has been a problem for many many years. Chronic underinvestment and a lack of opportunity meant that many moved away.

It's naive and overly simplistic to blame it on second home owners. They are a symptom rather than the cause.

@HELLITHURT

Bit you also speak English? So not really that fucking useful? More a pastime?

I'm not Welsh or English, but couldn't ignore this bit of ignorant nonsense. Language is part of one's identity. It doesn't matter if it's 'useful' outside of your country. English people are extremely privileged that English is now a lingua franca, so they can get away with not speaking any foreign languages at all. I'm not surprised that you don't see a point in preserving Welsh, but PLEASE read about the concept of identity and why it's so important to preserve the minority languages in communities.

How useful is welsh?

Well I've no doubt it's useful to the speakers themselves, but my point was that it's of little use outside Wales - so unless any refugees who arrive there never want to go anywhere else, it might be better for them if the more widely used language is prioritised

It also interests me that the % of those who speak Welsh is taken from the self-declarations on the last census, and tell us little about whether folk are fluent or it's just a case of being able to sing the anthem and manage a few words.
It varies by area, but given that an overall large majority say they can't speak it, I wonder just how many fluent speakers there are

[quote StolenYourStollen]@HELLITHURT

Bit you also speak English? So not really that fucking useful? More a pastime?

I'm not Welsh or English, but couldn't ignore this bit of ignorant nonsense. Language is part of one's identity. It doesn't matter if it's 'useful' outside of your country. English people are extremely privileged that English is now a lingua franca, so they can get away with not speaking any foreign languages at all. I'm not surprised that you don't see a point in preserving Welsh, but PLEASE read about the concept of identity and why it's so important to preserve the minority languages in communities.[/quote]
This thread is about Ukrainian refugees, please tell me how useful the welsh language would be to them?

We've got posters banging on about how it's better to have Ukrainian refugees rather than "English masters" as they'd speak welsh!

What's more beneficial welsh or English,..

@HELLITHURT
They can learn both? There is no limit on how many languages one can speak you know. If you emigrate to Quebec you have to learn/speak English and French. Belgium has 3 official languages and Switzerland has 4. I'm not even going to mention India where you can easily speak 5-6 languages and consider it normal. As Welsh is official language in Wales alongside English then refugees should learn both (or none if they want). Most of them are women with young children, if they go to local schools they will learn both languages and quickly become fluent. It is different to English pensioners who are known for creating their own English bubbles and refusing to learnt the local languages. So I get OPs point. And once again, we don't analyse language only in terms of its usefulness. Honestly, do some reading and then we can discuss.

@HELLITHURT

And it's Welsh - with capital W. Just like English.

@Puzzledandpissedoff It's actually the other way around - Welsh is taught in schools, compulsory to age 16, so almost everyone knows "a few words and the anthem". What research has indicated is that people put "not Welsh speaking" even when they can/could speak quite a bit (ie get by conversationally) but lack confidence. There's a huge disparity between written and spoken Welsh and this puts many off describing themselves as fluent - anecdotally this is true for some of my family and friends.
Believe me, there are hundreds of thousands of us who are fluent and using Welsh every day. I use it for work (exclusively, I don't use English at all) and we are a Welsh speaking home.

[quote Cheeseplease1976]@justasking111 I live on the Llyn Peninsula which has been devastated by second home ownership.[/quote]
I guessed where you lived. Gwynedd council are blocking house building as are Conwy and Denbighshire. This month alone they've turned down planning on three developments, even housing association properties in Llangefni new estate are too expensive for most coz there's no jobs, no encouragement to entice commercial companies to set up in North Wales. We're going backwards and the senedd are apathetic. We don't need Three million trees we need skilled jobs that pay well.

Once upon a time we had the Welsh Development Agency who did encourage international investment finding land, building whatever was needed where it was needed. We have a meat processing plant in Anglesey they bus the staff in from England. We found that out the hard way because they imported covid

AND BREATHE

A very interesting debate, even if it’s reduced to mud slinging.

I have a place in Cornwall. I let it out and pay a local team of trades to keep it running.

My guests spend money locally.

I could of course sell it and return it to its original use, however it was originally a hotel and has never, ever been in residential use.

If I did sell it, and if everyone sold their properties, that’d be fine, but there would be very little accommodation.

So then the tourists wouldn’t come because they couldn’t stay, and it’s too far for day trips, mostly.

So what would happen? Because the tourist industry IS the local industry in that particular location, so you’d basically decimate the local industry. So how would all the local unemployed afford to buy my property or service a mortgage?

What would replace it? It’s not very cost effective to place manufacturing plants at lands end, for example. And where would you find the skilled Labour?

My local industry where I live includes manufacturing, and I’m not keen on that because it’s a bit ugly and sometimes it smells, but if it was taken away, lots of people would lose their jobs because it IS the local industry.

It seems lots of people aren’t happy with their local industry, but you can’t just remove it, can you?

You have to suck up the ugliness of local industry if you want skilled workers and your children to stay in Wales 😔

Im not following.

I don’t have any connection to wales

While I don’t think anyone should be forced to open their homes, be it their own homes or a second property, I do think a select few need to be a bit more self aware. I appreciate there are scenarios where you might be low income but own a property elsewhere, the majority of those who have second properties are very privileged. I have more respect for the people on this thread who simply said they cannot accept the drop in income. At least it’s honest and transparent. Then again, I don’t believe some of the posters who claim they’d definitely open their homes to complete strangers. I know people definitely will and they’re awesome people but I think there’s a lot of bollocks on here. Even if I had a spare room,I would not feel comfortable opening my small home to strangers while I have young children.

Well there’s a difference between second homes left empty for family to use and actual business with mortgages

Poor @cheeseplease1976, you're banging your head against the wall with certain posters like @HELLITHURT whose rudeness and ignorance are astounding. I'm afraid she just doesn't 'get it'. It is not racist or anti English to feel as you do.

I raised the original point about the Abersoch article in the Guardian. As a South Walian who is learning Welsh, I understand your anger because we've been betrayed for decades by government in Westminster.
If Wales had a thriving economy and there were other jobs in tourist areas maybe some of those Welsh people wouldn't have sold their homes and moved away @HELLITHURT.

It's great we have a tourism industry in Wales but I remember when people stayed in hotels, b and b's or caravan parks. Its the holiday cottages which are the problem. And it would be better to have those empty homes filled with Ukranians. They would benefit, the local community would benefit - maybe that school in Abersoch wouldn't have closed if it had been full of Ukranians.

As @cheeseplease1976 says, second home owners don't really give a fuck about refugees, beyond virtue signalling their distress over the Channel boat people. If they did think about it, they would lose a few months profit in gratitude that they are lucky enough to live in GB and own a holiday cottage.

By the way, we are not jealous or bitter - I own a house inherited from my grandad and it is rented out to a local family.

Second home owners don’t generally rent them out, as it’s their ‘second home.’

I think the issue is, why does one family need a second home, when many have none.

Your point about cottages is true, people used to stay in other accommodation. But times have moved on, hotels and guest houses are unpleasant experiences with babies, for example. Self catering is much better suited to families.

Time and time again this argument is had on MN. It’s not the owners of legitimate businesses that are at fault, it’s successive governments who haven’t built the housing stock or invested in local industry.

@Malteser71

Second home owners don’t generally rent them out, as it’s their ‘second home.’

Evidence?

It’s in the semantics isn’t it.

I am referring to people who consider their second property a second home.

I have a rental property. It’s rented out most of the year. I can hardly call it my ‘second home’ if I can’t leave my things there or use it at will.

My neighbour leaves his property locked up. He uses it mainly in the summer, and he never lets it out.

He’s a second home owner of the type I’m referring to. There are clearly many like this (I know several) and high profile celebrities who have homes all over the world and don’t let them out.

We have offered up our 2nd home, although it is isolated, but hopefully someone could offer a car, not sure. We have also offered a bedroom here.

The thread title is about 'holiday homes' which I would take to be holiday accommodation, rented out over the summer and other peak seasons. Taking that during the off season might make sense.

But during the peak season (which is when the first 6 months would be) will be very costly to the business owners. Are any other businesses being asked to forgo the entire years profit (and probably take a loss, and lose goodwill going forward from all disappointed clients?

Second or subsequent owned properties are not necessarily holiday homes.

If there are properties where there is a real expectation they will be unoccupied for the next six months, then it's only right that they are out into use, whether for those already here who are homeless or insecurely housed, or to new arrivals.

I suspect the stumbling block is getting the property back if the gap in occupation is temporary.