To think holiday homes could be used to house lots of refugees

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

Uk has a LOT of holiday homes and empty second homes. Surely they could be used to take a lot of Refugees aswell as spare rooms? It could support local economies all year round too rather than just in peak tourism seasons? The crisis is going to escalate rapidly in Ukraine- there are 44 million people in the country and so far it’s about 2 million who have fled and now countries like Moldova and the Poland are starting to struggle so we need to step up.

Aibu? It seems like an obvious solution. Obviously using the empty homes of oligarchs too is a preference.

I read an article about a woman who gave her French holiday home to a refugee family.

[fuzzyduck1]

[quote Letshaveablackcelebration]@Davros was I judging anyone at all? Massive assumption there. But if there are loads of empty homes & the government is willing to pay then what is the difference between holiday makers and refugees?[/quote]
The difference is you’d get £350 a month for housing a refugee where if you rent a house out as holiday let your getting £500-10000 a week for the same property.

[3Daddy31982]

Tim Farron MP for Westmorland and Lonsdale stated 80 per cent of propertysales in Lakes were second homes.

[northernruth]

@Alexandra2001

Many 2nd homes are just that and not rented, certainly many of the ones in our Cornish Village are just used as retreats by their owners.

No reason why the Govt couldn't pay a reasonable amount to the owners to house Ukrainians.

After all, many have used a council tax loop hole to zero rate their properties and then claimed 10k in Covid support - CCC believe approx 3000 home owners did this in Cornwall alone.

That's not a loop hole, if the properties aren't rented out as holiday homes then that's fraud. You can only "zero rate" a business property (it's acutally business rates but at the moment there is 100% rate relief from some councils)
.

[IchabodCrane]

@WouldIwasShookspeared

I did say generally.

89,000 out of a population of how many millions?

I stand by my belief that most human beings in general are fundamentally selfish and of those doing the 'unselfish' thing a proportion of them are doing it for selfish reasons. This includes feeling good or superior, getting a few hundred extra quid etc

Ime, people, generally, are not selfless caring giving loving creatures who put strangers above themselves in any meaningful or prolonged way.

I think it's great that you believe in the goodness of mankind.

Its just that I don't.

Your thinking is too black and white.
Is someone 'selfless' only if they put others above themselves in every single situation? Which is actually destructive, as the self is also a person that needs to be considered.

Every human is both selfish and selfless depending on the situation. It's not something you can quantify...saying 'if X% of people behave in this way, X% of the time, humans are selfless, otherwise they are selfish'. Nope. Too many variables involved.

Anybody who has a blanket opinion on the good or bad of humanity is wrong. It's too complex for that. It depends on your life. I used to be a cynic but have met many pure people.

[User76745333]

Lots of requests for help coming through now on the various facebook pages. And the OP will be pleased to hear that there are also lots of people putting forward their self contained accommodation (in various cases holiday homes) to be used.
UK accommodation for Ukranian refugees facebook page

[mumwon]

@Badbadbunny really?
insurance states winter temp has to kept to 15c minimum (friend who has one tells me this)
you still have to pay basic costs of gas & electric & council tax which are no longer that low
Insurance for second homes or unoccupied properties are astronomical & exclude most things that ordinary house insurance
full council tax
You have to prove you have listed property for 180 days (I think) & it has to be rented for a min of 90 (I think these are the figures) they can block out some periods but they have to have it available the blocked periods may well ones that are perfectly legal or ones booked from last year - you cannot know for sure

[Badbadbunny]

@DottyHarmer

Apparently many bend the rules - advertising their properties but with periods blacked out, or cancelling bookings.

I know of one local council who were VERY rigorous with their checking before granting covid grants during the lockdowns to holiday lettings businesses, even down to wanting to see the bank statements, booking diaries, let property insurance policies, etc., as evidence they were genuinely trading as a holiday letting business before covid struck.

[Elphame]

@DottyHarmer

Apparently many bend the rules - advertising their properties but with periods blacked out, or cancelling bookings.

The rules in England have been very lax until the recent change which is long overdue.

However in Wales I have had to prove I hit the required number of nights let and provide detailed accounts and proof of letting for many years. Each year is checked.

And yes - I am taxed as a business. Which is what my holiday let is.

[Badbadbunny]

@DottyHarmer

Apparently many bend the rules - advertising their properties but with periods blacked out, or cancelling bookings.

HMRC can (and do) check the book-keeping/bank statements to look at the actual amounts earned. It's pretty easy for them to see the ones who aren't renting them out enough as their declared turnover will be below the average/normal levels.

[DottyHarmer]

Apparently many bend the rules - advertising their properties but with periods blacked out, or cancelling bookings.

[Badbadbunny]

@DottyHarmer

As I said earlier - tax second homes properly - not as businesses.

They ARE taxed properly as a business IF they meet the published HMRC criteria of a holiday letting, i.e. furnished, available to let for x days per year, actually let for y days per year. By HMRC definition they ARE a business.

[mumwon]

As I said earlier - I think the idea is for refugees to be supported for the first 6 months - aka near their hosts at a minimum or living with them preferable.
What I would like to know a bit more about is how all of the refugees/hosts are going to be checked to make sure things are OK. please imagine these are mostly old women & men or women with children - all suffering from shock & Post Traumatic Stress at the minimum they need to be somewhere where there is support available & transport & other infrastructure.
Holidays homes are often either in isolated rural areas (lacking support & transport & infrastructure & no where near hosts home - so not much support from them either) or in seaside locations many of whom are areas of deprivation for the locals.
I worry (as do quite few charities by the way) that refugees could be taken advantage of especially if there isn't proper ongoing support by the state (& who is going to do this - social workers????) & what happens if the relationship between the host & refugee breaks down? I think there is a lot of naivety in what problems can occur in having a stranger in your home long term especially in these circumstances
Does anybody on here work for councils involved in doing this & how far are the plans going to carry out the support?

[cupofdecaf]

I think holidays homes could be used to house lot of people regardless of who they are or where they're from.
In some touristy areas locals simply can't even rent never mind by because so many of the houses are holiday lets.

[Movinghouseatlast]

For me this is akin to telling people to give their job to a refugee. My holiday cottage is rented out all year and is my only income.

[LouLou198]

We have a family member who has a holiday home. It is booked up now for most of the year. During peak times they charge £800-1000 a week, I doubt they would be willing to give up this income.

[WouldIwasShookspeared]

Well yes. That is true.
There is a selfishness in every act when you think about it.

Why are you so angry about my view of the selfish nature of the human race?

You think I'm wrong. You are the one with the positive view of people. Shouldn't you just feel sad for me that I have such a low opinion of people when you know the true goodness of the human race?

[DottyHarmer]

Well, you could argue that doing anything for anybody is selfishly motivated, even caring for your own family. Giving to charity or raising funds is generally because you have a vested interest in the cause, so selfish too.

Perhaps we should all operate as islands and never do a darn thing that puts us out. Then at least we would be true to our nature

[WouldIwasShookspeared]

I did say generally.

89,000 out of a population of how many millions?

I stand by my belief that most human beings in general are fundamentally selfish and of those doing the 'unselfish' thing a proportion of them are doing it for selfish reasons. This includes feeling good or superior, getting a few hundred extra quid etc

Ime, people, generally, are not selfless caring giving loving creatures who put strangers above themselves in any meaningful or prolonged way.

I think it's great that you believe in the goodness of mankind.

Its just that I don't.

[DottyHarmer]

@WouldIwasShookspeared - as of 7am until the website crashed there were 89,000 “shits” willing to offer accommodation.

Of course there are greedy selfish people, and, worse, hypocrites busily offering everyone else’s homes but not their own. On social media (eg MN) you are going to get people posting unpopular opinions or spitting bile at those they deem “bad” - but I think this crisis has shown the good side of our citizens.

[DottyHarmer]

As I said earlier - tax second homes properly - not as businesses. You can’t confiscate property…. Or maybe you can as some was requisitioned during the War.

I am half Welsh (I have the blue legs to prove it ) and frankly if I were a Ukrainian I’d pass on the Welsh holiday cottage. My family has some Welsh Nationalist nuts in it and, as repeated upthread, refuse to answer about who sold their houses, and what industry could provide jobs. Bring back the coal and slate mines, eh?

[WouldIwasShookspeared]

I disagree. I think it's accurate.
People, generally, are selfish and only care about others up to a point and that point is normally when it negatively affects them and especially when it negatively affects them for an extended period.

We see it time and time and time again.

I'm not excluding myself from that btw. I'm no saint. I just think there's no point fooling ourselves about what we are.
People generally won't sacrifice and those with the most will sacrifice the least. The queen won't be opening up her castles and manor houses. The property hoarders won't be opening their doors. The massively rich won't be sharing it out. The big businesses won't stop trying to minimise the tax they pay.

Human nature. We are shits.

[Mellowyellow222]

@WouldIwasShookspeared

It's a nice idea but it involves sacrifice and far too many people will shake their heads and say how awful it is that people are being bombed and killed but will draw the line at being asked to give something up. Oh my goodness those poor poor children I wish I could hel.....oh, share my second home? Mmm, no I really don't think I can do that cos reasons. It's a shame they're dying though. Someone should really do something about that.

I really don’t think this is fair - and I don’t own a second home.

People aren’t being forced to donate a percentage of their salary, hand over a proportion of their grocery shop or give up second cars.

I only own one car - but I don’t think anyone who has two should be forced to give it to a refugee.

My heart goes out to these people- I have voluntarily donated both money and supplies. But as soon as we force a small proportion of society to house people we are In trouble/

There is a lot of bitterness on this thread about people owning second homes. I would love a beautiful place by a lake - but I can’t afford it. That’s life. I don’t think everyone who has a second home should have it confiscated though. I think we need to come up with practical solutions we’re the whole of society can help - not just vilified second homes owners

[User76745333]

But there isn’t any income now and it’s costing your relative money now. 🤷‍♀️

But there would be income because the plan was to rent it out.

We are still considering it but it isn’t a goer if it will actually cost our relative money. If it’s cost neutral then we can do it.

[TheOnlyMrsMac]

If you are unable to offer accommodation but are looking for other ways to help, Lumos is working with some of the most vulnerable children in Ukraine. None of your donations will be spent on administration: it will all go to help the children. JKR is matching donations up to £1 million.
//www.wearelumos.org
www.wearelumos.org/get-involved/ukraine-appeal/

[WouldIwasShookspeared]

It's a nice idea but it involves sacrifice and far too many people will shake their heads and say how awful it is that people are being bombed and killed but will draw the line at being asked to give something up. Oh my goodness those poor poor children I wish I could hel.....oh, share my second home? Mmm, no I really don't think I can do that cos reasons. It's a shame they're dying though. Someone should really do something about that.