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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect the High School to help my Y11 DD?

94 replies

Worrysaboutalot · 10/03/2022 21:15

TLTR What can I expect the high school to do for my daughter who is 15yo and really struggling to attend school due to the noise of the other children? Her BMI has drop down to 17 and the doctor says if it drops further, it might become an issue.

DETAILS
My DD is 15yo and in Y11, just finished her mocks with reasonable grades (though her teachers think she can do better) She is in sets 1 and 2 for all subjects.

DD doesn’t mind the schoolwork/teachers and voluntarily attends revision classes held at the end of the school day. As these are small groups of self-selected therefore well-behaved peers.

In years 7 though to 10 she had a near perfect attendance and did all remote work during the Covid lockdowns. We also have other children at this school who are both doing well and get regular attendance and hard work reports.

However, Year 11 has been very difficult for DD. After the relative quiet of home learning, DD cannot cope with the noise of a full classroom and the bad behaviour of the few pupils who like to disrupt the class.

DD has a near permanent stomach pains and feels sick every day. Because she feels like this, she is restricting her food. She won’t eat breakfast, as she worries, she will throw up in school. She won’t eat lunch as she has to stand outside with the rest of her year (darn covid bubbles) and a couple of the boys play football and she has been hit a couple of times (accidently) but it upset her.

She eats a small amount in the evenings when home. However, the GP and I don’t think is an eating disorder, as DD eats well Friday evening and Saturday when she is home and feels safe. Then Sunday she won’t eat much because it is school tomorrow. School holidays are near normal eating until the last day before school returns. GP thinks this is stress or anxiety food restriction. But wants to watch to make sure it doesn’t tip over into an eating disorder.

Last month we took her to the nurse at the local GP practise, who talked to her and looked at her food diary. The GP did blood tests and said all was fine.
Last month the school gave her a toilet pass and appointments with their counsellors, who tested her and said she was fine and didn’t fit the criteria for needing further help.

Unknown to DD the family scales are synced to our phones, and we can see our own weights and also ‘guests’ She only weighs herself monthly, but the last reading showed she had dropped to a 17 BMI reading.

We went back to the doctors this week. She has another blood test next week and he is referring her to CAMHS. Though this is unlikely to be of any use in the short term and it is her weight and final exams which are immediate short-term concern.

GP mentioned the possibility of trying a small dose of an antidepressant just to take until June and over her exams but wanted to do blood test first.

School have now sent us a letter saying her attendance is too low and they might fine us. However, a lot of the time she goes to school and begs the nurse to let her home. So, they are sending her home! How can we be fined if they are sending her home!

Some days are better, and she stays in school all day, but they are rare.

Earlier this week I have asked school to help us. They mentioned a CAMHS referral, but we already have that from the GP.
Bearing in mind all the learning has been completed for the Y11 children, these pupils are revising in lessons from now until exam time.

I suggested any of the following would help DD (in order of her preference)

  1. DD comes home on study leave (like they give to the badly behaved kids, they do half days) and I supervise her. DD goes to school in evening for revision classes
  2. DD studies in the school library (no go as she wouldn’t be supervised)
  3. DD studies in the school library with me (I have an enhanced CRB)
  4. DD goes to all classes but has a quiet place she can sit during breaks, lunches, and assemblies
  5. Everything as it is now but teachers don’t call on her in class to interact with them.

The Head of Y11 gave a flat no to all these suggestions. So, I asked the Head of Y11 to come up with a solution herself and she is going to discuss it with another staff member but still hasn’t got back to me two days later.

Other things to note. She has a small group of her friends. No bullying issues. No SEN.

We do talk to her about her food intake. Encourage her to have small snacks over the day. She eats a mixture of healthy food salads and some unhealthy crisps. She knows she doesn’t eat enough. We also explained that some/all her symptoms could be because she doesn’t eat enough.

We have tried herbal remedies and seasickness bands for the sickness.
For the stomach aches we give her 6 plus Calpol and Calpol meltable capsules to take to school, as she can’t swallow pills.
I just don’t what to do. Really, I would be happy to deregister her from school but apparently that would mean we would have to spend loads of money to get her into GCSES exams.

Lastly, over Covid I got really sick. Developed a rare neurology condition. This meant loads of worrying hospitals appointments, we had to leave our DD in charge of her younger siblings, with grandparents close by in case of emergency. I do feel the extra responsibilities and worrying about me made her anxiety worse. I feel very responsible. Now I have a mobility car and my wheelchair I have more independence, but DD and her siblings have more to do around the house and to help me.

AIBU to expect the High School to help my Y11 DD?

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:35

@Imitatingdory
I know DD is entitled to an education. However ALL learning has been completed for her GCSEs. The teachers are running revision classes only. My DD can revise easier at home.

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:36

@Runningwithoutstopping I have tried to get her to a Young Carers group before but she really resists any social interactions outside our family. She would be too anxious to go at this stage.

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:37

@Thatswhyimacat

It sounds like a good temporary solution, but you are going to need to work with DD on her anxiety issues otherwise she is going to continue struggling to cope and after school is done it is going to become even harder for her to get adjustments and accommodations.
You are right and I have no idea how to do that yet. Just firefighting day by day atm

@MikeWozniaksMohawk Thanks for the link.

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:39

@Celynfour Thank you. A lot to think about. I will talk to DH about the dietician referral. It would seem a sensible early referrals as CAMHS will take forever.

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:42

@lanthanum
We are getting her some of the suggested earplugs, they look very useful and hopefully will help DD.

I have spoken to their Senco and sees no need to help us and tried to push us onto the Attendance admin person!

I have been talking to one head of year and should talk to the other head of year next week!

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 11/03/2022 19:46

Not eating isn’t akwYs about control, I have emetophoia and will not eat if I think it’s going to make me sick.

Ds has autism. He was very underweight all through primary and tears 7-8 as he couldn’t cope with the noise of the dining hall. It was only when we moved his school and the new school allowed him out of class 5 mins early to collect his lunch which he then ate in a classroom, that things improved.

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 19:53

@Gowithme

Anxiety, sensitivity to noise, eating issues - I'd be thinking that could be adding up to possible ASD OP. How is she socially? Mine has ASD and I also would recommend headphones for the noise. You say she needs somewhere quiet for breaks and lunchtimes, mine spends them in the library. He is also in a small room for all exams. Does she struggle with getting the bus? That might be leaving her a little overwhelmed before she even gets there - would it be possible for you to take her in the future?
DD has minor traits of ASD like her brother but nothing which require help. I got her brother with his stronger traits assessed at primary school and it showed nothing of concern.

She is social with us but struggles with friends as she is too direct and doesn't pick up stuff. Which is exactly like me and her father. We love each other and don't suffer fools. We have a small number of good (and understanding) friends. I expect DD to be the same, she doesn't like her friendship group at high school, though they are lovely girls.
They don't share DD's narrow interests. I hope DD will find her tribe at college.

The school will not find a quiet place for my DD. They offered missing form group and a toilet pass. Which doesn't help the classroom based anxiety.

She copes on the bus with music on her headphones, reading a book and one of her siblings next to her, so a stranger won't sit with her.

I can't take them to high school. As I take their younger sibling to primary school.

OP posts:
Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 20:00

@Comefromaway

Not eating isn’t akwYs about control, I have emetophoia and will not eat if I think it’s going to make me sick.

Ds has autism. He was very underweight all through primary and tears 7-8 as he couldn’t cope with the noise of the dining hall. It was only when we moved his school and the new school allowed him out of class 5 mins early to collect his lunch which he then ate in a classroom, that things improved.

@Comefromaway

Thank you for your insight into another possibility that accounts for DD reluctant to eat.

Glad you sorted out DS lunch situation.

OP posts:
NCagain · 11/03/2022 20:03

I think this is very understandable anxiety.
I also think the school are being bloody minded and unreasonable.
My child suffered a serious injury at school and was off sick for months. The school did not care one iota.
Two things occur to me:
If your GP is reasonable, could they sign dd off for a few weeks for complete rest?
I agree with pp suggesting the importance of flagging the fact that your dd is a young carer. Perhaps your GP could help with that too?
Also, I would contact your MP. They can help with lots of things and can assist you to find people who can help.
My experience of 6th form college has been very positive.
Some secondary schools can be hell on earth for a child who wants to study but cannot cope with mayhem.
I am really sorry you are ill OP. This must be so hard for you. Flowers

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 20:23

@NCagain

I think this is very understandable anxiety. I also think the school are being bloody minded and unreasonable. My child suffered a serious injury at school and was off sick for months. The school did not care one iota. Two things occur to me: If your GP is reasonable, could they sign dd off for a few weeks for complete rest? I agree with pp suggesting the importance of flagging the fact that your dd is a young carer. Perhaps your GP could help with that too? Also, I would contact your MP. They can help with lots of things and can assist you to find people who can help. My experience of 6th form college has been very positive. Some secondary schools can be hell on earth for a child who wants to study but cannot cope with mayhem. I am really sorry you are ill OP. This must be so hard for you. Flowers
I am so sorry your child was hurt at school, to the extend of being home sick for so long. I hope they are fully recovered now.

The legal person I spoke to, suggested a doctors note, if the GP felt DD anxiety warranted it. I will try this route if the school aren't helpful.

The school have already replied to my email, asking for a meeting. I responded saying I am available anytime for a zoom call. I don't want to be outnumbered at the school, nor have to drive upset back home!

Due to the meeting request they clearly are not going to agree to study leave. Sigh, nothing is easy.

I will listen to their suggestions and consider if they will help DD. But unless they can remove the other pupils from the classroom, I am unsure what they can realistically offer.

Then I will request they support out proposed solution aka home study leave and see what they say.

I am dreading this already and I really don't need more stress in my life Sad

OP posts:
Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 20:41

The school can’t lawfully agree to the study leave now. It is not lawful to allow pupils study leave prior to the exams beginning. However, neither do the school require a doctor’s note in order to authorise the absence.

All learning has not been completed otherwise everyone would get 9 in everything. All teaching of new content may have finished, but pupils will still be learning, especially exam technique.

The alternative provision made by the LA can include home tuition.

It is rather naive to think DD doesn’t need help with the ASD traits. She is struggling socially, emotionally, with sensory differences, her eating and her mental health. If she has ASD it is likely to be at the root of her anxiety.

If you are firefighting every day and think this is going to be longer term you could apply for an EHCNA to get DD additional support. This is important if you think there is a chance DD won’t cope in college as the statutory duty to provide alternative education doesn’t apply to post 16 pupils, so an EHCP is the only way to secure further support.

Hercisback · 11/03/2022 20:55

It's too early to allow study leave legally.

I'm not sure the school are being bloody minded either. They may simply not have anywhere she can go.

They won't remove other students. They should allow dd to wear noise cancelling headphones.

I'd start the EHCP process now.

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 21:19

DD doesn't have ASD. Her traits are very minor compared to her brother. Her brother was assessed at primary school and does not have ASD, so neither does DD.

Yes, the advice I got was if the school didn't agree to the study leave, which they clearly don't. Then the school should be asked to start assessments on DD. I suspect they won't want the trouble or paperwork for a child leaving their school in 8 weeks but I might be pleasantly surprised. I was advised to ask for Early Help Assessment and a EHCP assessment ?! No idea if they are the same thing or not.

OP posts:
Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 21:29

The school don’t assess for an EHCNA, the LA do. You don’t need to wait for the school to request an EHCNA, you can do this yourself now. IPSEA have a model letter you can use. EH and EHCNA aren’t the same thing. In some LAs you can self refer to EH too.

You can’t say for certain DD doesn’t have ASD or another neurodiversity. Just because DS doesn’t have ASD doesn’t mean DD doesn’t. Girls typically present very different to the stereotypical view, they also often mask very well until, well, they don’t and the wheels fall off, and just from your posts here her difficulties are not “very minor” and she has lots of markers.

Elderflower2016 · 11/03/2022 21:35

Schools can provide alternative Ed for children under ‘medical needs’ grounds eg for her anxiety, sensory sensitivities and eating difficulties. I think you need a letter from Gp to support this but in our county it’s 12wks support from private tutor leading to re integration. By then it would be nearly exam time. Also adjustments can be provided by school without a diagnosis or ehcp.

Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 21:47

Elderflower it is the LA will the duty to provide education, not schools, and the LA should not delay beginning provision due to a lack of evidence. It’s not limited to 12 weeks either.

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 21:54

The IPSEA website is talking about 6 weeks wait to even think about starting! However I will get reading.

"12wks support from private tutor leading to re integration" Would be marvellous support, if that was offered.

I will have to see what school suggests.

OP posts:
Potatoesdonthavefaces · 11/03/2022 21:58

The sensitivity to noise makes me think autism right away. Girls present differently than boys and are often better at masking.

Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 21:58

Once you apply for an EHCP the LA have 6 weeks to decide whether they are going to assess or not.

Medical needs tuition under s.19, the Education Act 1996 is separate and should begin once it is clear the pupil will miss 15 days. For ongoing difficulties the 15 days do not have to be consecutive, they can be cumulative. The nature of the provision varies depending on your LA and individual needs. It may be 1:1 tuition online, 1:1 home tuition, 1:1 tuition outside the home, online schooling, small group tuition, hospital school, medical PRU…

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 22:01

Is Medical needs tuition linked to applying for EHCP or are they separate?

OP posts:
Potatoesdonthavefaces · 11/03/2022 22:02

'She is social with us but struggles with friends as she is too direct and doesn't pick up stuff'

That's classic asd.

Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 22:06

No, they are completely separate.

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 22:10

@Imitatingdory

No, they are completely separate.
I will ask the school about that.
OP posts:
Imitatingdory · 11/03/2022 22:11

It is the LA with the statutory duty to provide alternative provision for those unable to attend school, not the school.

Worrysaboutalot · 11/03/2022 22:13

So I can ask the LA for an 'Medical needs tuition' ?
Can I ask for that direct?
Or do I have to have the schools blessing?

OP posts:
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