AIBU to expect the High School to help my Y11 DD?

[Worrysaboutalot]

TLTR What can I expect the high school to do for my daughter who is 15yo and really struggling to attend school due to the noise of the other children? Her BMI has drop down to 17 and the doctor says if it drops further, it might become an issue.

DETAILS
My DD is 15yo and in Y11, just finished her mocks with reasonable grades (though her teachers think she can do better) She is in sets 1 and 2 for all subjects.

DD doesn’t mind the schoolwork/teachers and voluntarily attends revision classes held at the end of the school day. As these are small groups of self-selected therefore well-behaved peers.

In years 7 though to 10 she had a near perfect attendance and did all remote work during the Covid lockdowns. We also have other children at this school who are both doing well and get regular attendance and hard work reports.

However, Year 11 has been very difficult for DD. After the relative quiet of home learning, DD cannot cope with the noise of a full classroom and the bad behaviour of the few pupils who like to disrupt the class.

DD has a near permanent stomach pains and feels sick every day. Because she feels like this, she is restricting her food. She won’t eat breakfast, as she worries, she will throw up in school. She won’t eat lunch as she has to stand outside with the rest of her year (darn covid bubbles) and a couple of the boys play football and she has been hit a couple of times (accidently) but it upset her.

She eats a small amount in the evenings when home. However, the GP and I don’t think is an eating disorder, as DD eats well Friday evening and Saturday when she is home and feels safe. Then Sunday she won’t eat much because it is school tomorrow. School holidays are near normal eating until the last day before school returns. GP thinks this is stress or anxiety food restriction. But wants to watch to make sure it doesn’t tip over into an eating disorder.

Last month we took her to the nurse at the local GP practise, who talked to her and looked at her food diary. The GP did blood tests and said all was fine.
Last month the school gave her a toilet pass and appointments with their counsellors, who tested her and said she was fine and didn’t fit the criteria for needing further help.

Unknown to DD the family scales are synced to our phones, and we can see our own weights and also ‘guests’ She only weighs herself monthly, but the last reading showed she had dropped to a 17 BMI reading.

We went back to the doctors this week. She has another blood test next week and he is referring her to CAMHS. Though this is unlikely to be of any use in the short term and it is her weight and final exams which are immediate short-term concern.

GP mentioned the possibility of trying a small dose of an antidepressant just to take until June and over her exams but wanted to do blood test first.

School have now sent us a letter saying her attendance is too low and they might fine us. However, a lot of the time she goes to school and begs the nurse to let her home. So, they are sending her home! How can we be fined if they are sending her home!

Some days are better, and she stays in school all day, but they are rare.

Earlier this week I have asked school to help us. They mentioned a CAMHS referral, but we already have that from the GP.
Bearing in mind all the learning has been completed for the Y11 children, these pupils are revising in lessons from now until exam time.

I suggested any of the following would help DD (in order of her preference)

1. DD comes home on study leave (like they give to the badly behaved kids, they do half days) and I supervise her. DD goes to school in evening for revision classes
2. DD studies in the school library (no go as she wouldn’t be supervised)
3. DD studies in the school library with me (I have an enhanced CRB)
4. DD goes to all classes but has a quiet place she can sit during breaks, lunches, and assemblies
5. Everything as it is now but teachers don’t call on her in class to interact with them.

The Head of Y11 gave a flat no to all these suggestions. So, I asked the Head of Y11 to come up with a solution herself and she is going to discuss it with another staff member but still hasn’t got back to me two days later.

Other things to note. She has a small group of her friends. No bullying issues. No SEN.

We do talk to her about her food intake. Encourage her to have small snacks over the day. She eats a mixture of healthy food salads and some unhealthy crisps. She knows she doesn’t eat enough. We also explained that some/all her symptoms could be because she doesn’t eat enough.

We have tried herbal remedies and seasickness bands for the sickness.
For the stomach aches we give her 6 plus Calpol and Calpol meltable capsules to take to school, as she can’t swallow pills.
I just don’t what to do. Really, I would be happy to deregister her from school but apparently that would mean we would have to spend loads of money to get her into GCSES exams.

Lastly, over Covid I got really sick. Developed a rare neurology condition. This meant loads of worrying hospitals appointments, we had to leave our DD in charge of her younger siblings, with grandparents close by in case of emergency. I do feel the extra responsibilities and worrying about me made her anxiety worse. I feel very responsible. Now I have a mobility car and my wheelchair I have more independence, but DD and her siblings have more to do around the house and to help me.

AIBU to expect the High School to help my Y11 DD?

feedyourinstinct.com.au/checklist/

Have a look at the above link, it’s a checklist of behaviours that might signal the need for a proper ED assessment.

If it comes out with a high score she needs a GP assessment that adheres to the current NICE Guidelines www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng69/chapter/Recommendations#identification-and-assessment

Also check out this from Royal College of Psychiatry…..GPs are notoriously poor at identifying, managing and treating ED.
www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/members/faculties/eating-disorders/marsipan/junior-marsipan-cr168.pdf?sfvrsn=65e82800_2

Thanks for the medication information. The more we know the better.

She isn't throwing up. We only have one bathroom and it would have been noticed, I hope. I will keep that in mind and watch her closely.

I know the food thing is control based. Which is why we are not pressuring her to eat. It wouldn't work and it would add to her anxiety.

@Worrysaboutalot

Thanks for the medication information. The more we know the better.

She isn't throwing up. We only have one bathroom and it would have been noticed, I hope. I will keep that in mind and watch her closely.

I know the food thing is control based. Which is why we are not pressuring her to eat. It wouldn't work and it would add to her anxiety.

If she has spiralled into an ED it is no longer about control. Her brain is malnourished and it is now a biological illness that manifests with a variety of physical and psychological symptoms. The medicine is food/nourishment. Without it, recovery does not happen. Aggressive refeeding is needed with rapid weight recovery. The softly softly approach prevalent in this country is counter productive, doesn’t work and is the reason why there are so many deaths and chronic anorexics.

OP as ImitatingDory says, don't deregister her.

My DD was also ill in year 11, and could not cope with school. I kept her at home and thanks to some fabulous MNetters I found out about the Local Authority Out of School Education Service. As she was too ill to attend school, they sent a tutor twice a week to help with English language and maths, and she revised at home the rest of the time. As she was still enrolled at school she was able to return to sit her exams.

it's horrible isn't it.

Oh, and DD went to college absolutely fine come September, a different environment made all the difference.

You say you offered to go into the school to sit with her, I am wondering if you'd be able to drive to the school on a lunch time and have a dinner date with your daughter in the car? That little breather away from people, some food and a chance to chat with Mum might just be enough to keep her going in the afternoon. Or a pass to let her out at lunchtime, I know a lot of schools have stopped these though. I empathise entirely with this, you and your poor daughter must be at your witts end, I will add more later about my own experiences of this and what did and didn't help but I didn't want to read and run and needed to place mark.

@sirsighalot

Oh, and DD went to college absolutely fine come September, a different environment made all the difference.

That is our hope. I am glad the change of environment helped your daughter.

I am happy to drive to her school. I even applied for a job at her school but they didn't even interview me!

Even though they should have as I am vastly overqualified and ticked the "I am in a wheelchair" double tick box which should guarantee am interview if you meet minimum criteria)

DD really loved the idea of me working at the school, shame nothing happened.

She would surely be classed as a young carer as she looks after you/siblings sometimes. I mention this as you may be able to get more support on this basis if this is the root of her anxiety.

You can try taking her out and enrolling her into an online school. If the situation improves, you have identified the problem. Normal school doesn't suit everyone. But I realise you need a plan B if the situation doesn't improve. If she goes down the eating disorder path, you'll have other things to worry about and school attendance will not matter.

Here is a good article on your options:
www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/choosing-a-school/online-schools

My son is year 11 and has ASD (only a recent diagnosis). He also suffers from a lot of anxiety and panic attacks related to this and some bullying that he has experienced.

The school have been really good with him and have managed to stop the bullying (nothing since September now).

They have taken him out of all non essential lessons - eg PE and religious studies (and also Welsh Bacc as we're in Wales). During those lessons, he goes to the well being room, where there is a TA who supports him. This has made a massive difference as he gets some quiet time.

There are two lessons that he particularly struggle with - for one, he attends 60% of the lessons and for the other, he attends for the actual teaching bits, but for just doing revision questions etc, he is allowed to leave the lesson.

He is allowed to sit in the back of the hall with fidget toys/music etc when he is overwhelmed. The final thing is that he got to do his mock exams in a classroom with only a few other people, rather than in the main hall with loads of others - they will do this for his Summer exams as well and it made a massive difference.

With all of these adjustments, his attendence has improved and he feels more comfortable in school - He has missed two days since Christmas. One because he felt overwhelmed and wouldn't go to school, the other, because he had a bad reaction to his COVID jab. One day off and then he was back.

It isn't perfect and he still doesn't like school, but It's significantly better than is was at the end of the summer term and beginning of Autumn term.

Hopefully, you could suggest some of these things to the school and it might help your daughter.

Good luck

Would dd be classed as a young carer? Do you have a disability social worker - they could offer advice and support.
Another option would be home schooling with an online provider?

She sounds like she has had lots to deal with emotionally, any chance she doesnt want to be away from you as she worries while at school? The noise and eating could mask her deeper worries

I was like this as a teenager. I was anxious, tend to throw up when anxious and was terrified of throwing up in front of people (which did happen a few times). I also lose my appetite when anxious, so don't want to eat both because I'm not hungry and because I don't want to throw up. I didn't have an eating disorder, but people did often assume I did because of my low weight and refusal to eat in public. I don't think people really understand - it doesn't fit the psych issues that they've heard of.

I'm not sure what the right solution is for your DD. CBT helped me to get through school. Then it just went away the moment I got to university. So maybe a fresh start at college would help. If I get very stressed, I do still lose my appetite and very occasionally throw up, but that's once every few years.

It came to a head today. She was so upset and distressed on her bus on the way to school. I tried my hardness to be firm and supportive encouraging her into school via her texts. Telling her just to go to the nurse when she gets to school. I stood firm but when I went to take youngest to her school, DD started texting DH, who told her to come home.

We just can't continue like this.

So after a morning of phone calls, I found a local statutory service providing legal help and support for kids and education. Rang them and spoke to a wonderful man. He listened to my outline of our situation and said 'that's easy just put her on study leave!'

I said the school said they could not do that and he said of course they can. He said he would speak to the school if I wanted him too.

By the end of the conversation, we decided I would write an honest email to the school outlining all DD anxiety issues and our proposed legal solution home study with parental attention.

I was to name him and his company and say he was willing to explain how DD could be shown as on study leave on the school system so her being at home would not affect the school numbers.

He also asked me to add if the school didn't want to accept our proposed solution that there was a couple of assessments that they should do on DD to check her educational needs, which frankly seems a big waste of time on all sides, but he said it would be better to put that in, so I did.

So I took his advice. So I sent the email off and I am dreading the response.

We have also stated in the email that we are keeping DD home studying until the school and we agree a solution. We will get fined but we can appeal that. Frankly I am more concerned with my daughters health than money.

She will be driven in to school next week to complete her mock exams at various points next week and I have requested a quieter room for her too. She is to come straight home after the mocks for home study.

I am both really relieved and a bit scared. I don't like causing issues but it needed doing.

Wish us well, lets hope the email is read in the spirit, it has been sent in.

If she's been diagnosed with anxiety, then the SENDCO should be involved - it's Special Education Needs and Disability, which includes children with health conditions such as anxiety.

The school should have a policy on supporting children with medical conditions, too.

You might also want to ask about getting the process started for evaluating her for possible autism - yes, she is about to leave, but that's not the point.

I'm a secondary school librarian and have regular students who come in with me to work because of anxiety and other issues that make the classroom untenable. It definitely should be possible, and is something that is common since lockdown in my experience at two different secondaries in the past year.
Senco and head of year would be my first port of call.

Be careful with SENDIASS, some are good but too many will repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. You would be better trying to speak to IPSEA or SOSSEN.

The school should not just be putting DD on study leave. DD is still CSA and has a right to a full time education. If she cannot attend school due to her mental health the LA should be providing alternative arrangements. The government attendance guidance states study leave should only be given during exams and should be “used sparingly”, the DfE also clarified study leave should not begin before exams.

Do not be worried about being fined if DD is unable to attend school due to medical needs, you will not be fined, although some schools do try to scare parents with the threat.


It sounds like you have had to investigate a lot of different avenues to get support for your daughter. I wonder if it may help to try and get some support from a young carers group.
She may need some help to process the trauma that you experienced and she witnessed.I have had some health problems lately and I worry about my son because children can internalize their fear and feel guilty about things that aren't in their(or your) control.
I hope you get the support you need x

It sounds like a good temporary solution, but you are going to need to work with DD on her anxiety issues otherwise she is going to continue struggling to cope and after school is done it is going to become even harder for her to get adjustments and accommodations.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I have seen these noise reducing ear plugs advertised recently

www.loopearplugs.com

Some points from the perspective of a mother and someone who works in education .
Do not take your GP’s word about the ED . They are not experts and it is a torturously slow process , ask to be referred to a dietician and they will refer you to a specialist . This is a much quicker process . My GP just said ‘she’s young , she’ll fill out ‘ . A friend who is a GP told me to circumnavigate the system by asking to see a dietician . CAHMS takes too long . GPs are too busy . I will be forever grateful she did .
And eating that is disordered is an eating disorder and needs specialist care and support .
From parental point of view , what you are asking of the school feels reasonable but a school just might not be able to accommodate them and I wouldn’t entertain parents being in school - not appropriate at all for anyone .
I hope your daughter gets the help and support she needs . Just keep pushing . All these services are critically oversubscribed but keep going .
Wish you all the best .

Ear defenders/plugs/phones is a good idea.

If you get nowhere with HoY, try the SENDCo. They may well already be providing a "quiet place" to other children at breaks/lunchtimes.

Don't deregister her from school. If she ends up not attending, then they will have to engage with you on how to help. At the moment you've probably just had one of the standard "attendance is below this amount so we need to warn you we might fine you" letters, which doesn't take any account of individual circumstances. Hopefully they would be working with you before getting as far as actually considering a fine.

Also flag up that she is a "young carer" - there may be some support for her with respect to that; although it sounds as if the worst time for that is over, I'm sure she still feels a bit of the weight of helping you.

Anxiety, sensitivity to noise, eating issues - I'd be thinking that could be adding up to possible ASD OP. How is she socially? Mine has ASD and I also would recommend headphones for the noise. You say she needs somewhere quiet for breaks and lunchtimes, mine spends them in the library. He is also in a small room for all exams. Does she struggle with getting the bus? That might be leaving her a little overwhelmed before she even gets there - would it be possible for you to take her in the future?

@NeverDropYourMooncup I spoke to the Senco teacher today and she tried to refer me to the attendance administrator says that was who would help me.

As I had applied for this very position, I knew that this was a data cruncher position with no capacity to 'help' over sending fine letters and attendance agreements to parents.

I insisted that it was her job to help my daughter and said I needed to know what she would do. She said she would speak to the Head of Year!

@inkyscribbler

School say there is no people available to supervise her in the library which surprises me with the size of the school.