To think it’s not going to be a case of heating or eating for many families

[LadyCatStark]

We can forget heating altogether! I know it’s a nice little rhyme but for many, many families it’s going to be a case of eating or putting just enough petrol in the car to get you to work to pay all these increased costs. Eating yourself, or feeding your kids (hopefully most people will choose their kids). Eating healthily or eating cheap rubbish.

I’ve just nipped to Aldi as I had a work appointment cancel in the area and spent £40 just on the few bits I needed, not even a proper shop. I could have cried that I’d driven even just the 15 minutes to my appointment and it was cancelled and every drop of fuel counts.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate my response was a lot politer than I was thinking!

Slightly different, but very few people on here were bothered about the people who had to choose between heating and eating as a result of lockdown. I'm slightly better off now, despite the price rises, than I was during lockdown, because I am at least now earning again. It's still shit, but slightly less shit.

I think people only really notice the things that directly affect them. There was very little sympathy on MN for people who were struggling financially and/or MH-wise with lockdown.

@LizzieMacQueen

See the thing about VAT, the government are benefitting hugely by the price rise. Surely by dropping to 2.5% , that would be a small measure to help.

There shouldn't be any vat on essential goods and services

@BoredZelda

Yes it going to be a rough few months but if you cut say 5% off VAT now you will also lose that money in 6 months time that could be better spent on educating our kids.

No point in pouring money in to education if kids are too hungry to learn, or have been made homeless, or are experiencing any other issue related to poverty.

And you are kidding yourself if you think this issue is so short term it will be over in months. The hike in fuel prices is not temporary, and there is to be another price rise in October, potentially another 50%. So by then people will be paying double for their home energy costs. Who knows what impact Ukraine will continue to have on gas prices.

I’m not given to doom mongering and can usually see a mor balanced picture but without government intervention, I can’t see how this will change in the next 12 months at least.

Oil peaked at $124 on 8/3/22 and fell to $104 by 11/3/22, this compares to $80 at the start of the year or $75 back in September. This is largely being kept up by OPEC who don't want to boost supplies, whether the USA government can compel them to which might drive down the price is to be seen.

Natural gas peaked at $6.32 in October it's currently $4.69, at the start of the year it was $3.86 or $4.59 in September.

Personally I think this we'll be a peak that settles at a higher level than normal, but hopefully pay rises match it so it isn't so much of a shock. With friends we have a little sweep stake (yes we are geeky) the most popular was somewhere between $90-105 per barrel even from those who should know.

Last time a barrel of Brent crude hit similar prices in 2014, a litre of Diesel was £1.47.... now its over £1.70, vat is the same, duty has been frozen... inflation, until this year, has been very low.

One has to assume that its profiteering by all involved.

EU is suggesting price controls.

Brexit may not be direct cause but its an outcome Putin wanted, supported and funded - if you voted for it, you voted in support of a murderous tyrant, even Farage, after Crimea and Georgia, said he admired Putin, as did Trump, who also supported Brexit and another Putin fan (even now)

So a very well done.

@etopp

Slightly different, but very few people on here were bothered about the people who had to choose between heating and eating as a result of lockdown. I'm slightly better off now, despite the price rises, than I was during lockdown, because I am at least now earning again. It's still shit, but slightly less shit.

I think people only really notice the things that directly affect them. There was very little sympathy on MN for people who were struggling financially and/or MH-wise with lockdown.

Yes, I have noticed this as well.

@SpringRainbow @etopp I quite agree.

Brexit effect: Forseeable
Putin’s assault on Ukraine:Forseeable
Pandemic: Bolt from blue but always a possibility. We need to have some margin to deal with such a happening. Swine Flu, SARS, warnings on the horizon.

Each factor has compounded the other.

Personally, for now I am OK. Energy fixed until Spring 23, we don’t feel the cold, we are experts at eating well on a frugal budget (Indian heritage makes that easier). I walk a lot. And crucially, do not have young children.

But I am seriously worried about my pension. It took a battering during the first year of COVID, and has now lost more than 10% in 2 weeks, and counting. I will need to draw on it within 2 years, it was ‘just enough to scrape by’ before this, and there isn’t time for it to recover as all this plays out.

I think there needs to be an urgent reassessment of the benefits system and a boost for families with children.

but very few people on here were bothered about the people who had to choose between heating and eating as a result of lockdown

You have a short memory. There was plenty written about that on MN. One might argue that those who were impacted by lockdown hadn’t previously “bothered” that there were people in that position prior to covid.

To suggest people weren’t “bothered” is laughable.

Oil peaked at $124 on 8/3/22 and fell to $104 by 11/3/22, this compares to $80 at the start of the year or $75 back in September. This is largely being kept up by OPEC who don't want to boost supplies, whether the USA government can compel them to which might drive down the price is to be seen.

Whatever you think is the reason, it is foolish to think we’ve seen a peak.

@TooMinty

When I was a kid, we didn't have a shower. We had one or two baths per week and sometimes I washed my hair over the sink in between if it needed it. But my house was warm enough, we had enough food and unless my parents were great at hiding it, we didn't need to choose between things. People have different, better expectations now and that's good, who doesn't want a better life for their kids? But it feels like we are going backwards - food banks, no heating etc.

My parents now tell me money was very tight when I was little but I never realised. The house was warm and we were also fed decent nutritious food with a few treats every week. They occasionally took us to the cinema, bowling, swimming etc and for days out to the seaside in the summer. However, we didn't have holidays abroad, we had one little old car for the family and our house was probably only just big enough for us. I think like you say people have such different expectations these days.

@Alexandra2001

Last time a barrel of Brent crude hit similar prices in 2014, a litre of Diesel was £1.47.... now its over £1.70, vat is the same, duty has been frozen... inflation, until this year, has been very low.

One has to assume that its profiteering by all involved.

EU is suggesting price controls.

Brexit may not be direct cause but its an outcome Putin wanted, supported and funded - if you voted for it, you voted in support of a murderous tyrant, even Farage, after Crimea and Georgia, said he admired Putin, as did Trump, who also supported Brexit and another Putin fan (even now)

So a very well done.

This needs repeating over every Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn page until the sheepeople get it and understand what tgey caused.

I think people expect more now - and they assume it’s normal. On the “will you host a refugee” thread, I’m surprised by people saying they “only have one bathroom”. I think having one bathroom/loo is normal. Everyone I know only has one.

I think plenty of people were bothered during lockdown, maybe they just didn't post about it here. Lots of people in my neighbourhood got together and set up extra food banks, made donations, delivered food and other items. We set up neighbourhood whatsapp groups to organise everything. The same groups are currently organising help for refugees, collecting donations and so on. I have no doubt it will continue. .

On the second paragraph, I wonder if people say “the” because it starts in a “U”

Rubbish sentence examples but you might say

“I’m going to the United States” vs
“I’m going to America”

Or

‘I’m going to the UK” vs
“I’m going to England (Scotland, NI, Wales)

Sorry, I was quoting the poster saying to not use THE Ukraine.

@etopp

Slightly different, but very few people on here were bothered about the people who had to choose between heating and eating as a result of lockdown. I'm slightly better off now, despite the price rises, than I was during lockdown, because I am at least now earning again. It's still shit, but slightly less shit.

I think people only really notice the things that directly affect them. There was very little sympathy on MN for people who were struggling financially and/or MH-wise with lockdown.

I wonder if it's more likely that you didn't notice the threads or the ones on the same topics from earlier times (pre-lockdown) when people were bothered because they didn't directly affect you or fit in with your perspective on MN.

There was certainly a fair amount of empathy that I recall from such threads. On a different topic there is consistent, useful advice to people on the main Ukraine thread find their MH issues are consuming them.

@gerispringer

Perhaps those Brexitty fans would like to explain- energy costs in France - up 4% ( rises capped by govt) , Energy costs in U.K. - up 54% One Brexit bonus we were promised - VAT would be cut on energy prices. VAT has been cut on energy in some EU countries - not in the U.K.

The French government have forced the state-owned energy supplier to hold down prices until the election. One way or another, taxpayers and/or consumers will pay eventually. Nothing to do with Brexit.

Mind you, the French invested heavily in nuclear power. Shame that the Blair government dithered for so many years...

We've just been quoted 140ppl for red diesel.

It's not that long at all since that was an expensive price for white diesel. Blimey!

@porridgecrumble

I was a student in the early 70s, living in a shared flat with one 2 bar electric fire that we couldn't afford to switch on, an immersion heater that we couldn't afford to switch on either, and a gas ring that required coins in the meter. We kept clean by washing with a single bucket of water and a bar of soap (standing in the bath) and 1 trip to the laundrette a week. We used to sit in the library as much as possible, walked everywhere and wore layers, adding blankets and hot water bottles when studying at home. I wouldn't like to go back to that, but I think I could if I had no choice.

This is how we lived from 2015-2020 while saving for a house. Didn't have reliable hot water so mostly boiled a kettle and had sponge baths. Launderette once a month. Ice inside the windows on cold winter days. It was tolerable, but perhaps only because there was an end in sight. There is a big difference between choosing to live a certain way in order to achieve a better standard of living in the future and having to indefinitely scrimp just to survive.

Some of the habits we fostered then are good ones - we only ever buy things when they need replacing. Clothes and shoes still get mended until they're only suitable for fabric recycling. Still only take a three minute shower twice a week. We've had two winters with the thermostat at 19 - it's going down to 17.5 for next winter.

I can't see OPEC increasing the supply of oil, Saudi and UAE refused to take Bidens calls early this week. Ultimately increasing the amount of oil produced is just kicking the can down the road. We live on a planet with limited resources and we have been burning through them without any thought of the consequences. We should have been investing in nuclear power years ago.

As for Brexit there is evidence that Russia interfered in the referendum, the Russian funded Tories didn't care and turned a blind eye.

@porridgecrumble so what about people who were already living like that before these massive hikes in fuel and food prices?

@ThroughThickAndThin01

On the second paragraph, I wonder if people say “the” because it starts in a “U”

Rubbish sentence examples but you might say

“I’m going to the United States” vs
“I’m going to America”

Or

‘I’m going to the UK” vs
“I’m going to England (Scotland, NI, Wales)

No. We use "the" in front of plural names of countries, and general geo-political nouns, states, emirates etc. This is not the case for Ukraine. "The" was used in front of Ukraine when it was a region, now there is no need for it, so we shall all adjust and just say Ukraine. And perhaps try not to be too annoying when people make the mistake, because it is just a mistake and we will all get used to it in time. I don't think Ukranian has a definite article and in languages like French, you put a definite article in front of all countries, so anyway, I think there are more important things to worry about, let's just try to ditch the "the".

@Vanillabourbon that's kind of my point (not in a nasty way!)
Like I have a heated airer that I paid for but I need to buy something else to make it less expensive to run and I work FT. IYSWIM
It's a pretty dry well insulated apartment but some stuff seems to take ages to dry
I might start challenging the management company over the no washing in the garden (private garden) and point out how much things have changed

I foresee a lot of hospitality businesses struggling - that's the first to go eg the weekly takeaway. If you are able to cook, have storage pots etc then it's possible to eat frugally certainly for £40 a week for a family of 4 but it's hard if you don't have freezer space, a microwave etc

We were already facing increases in prices and decreases in living standards due to Brexit. The rising fuel prices and the wat in Ukraine due to Russia's behaviour is making what was already bad, worse.